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Duck52
03-27-2019, 08:04 PM
The road to perfection started with a Remington 870 PGO (pre Tac-14) with 18" barrel. I intentionally made changes in stages so I could test effects of each modification. First changes were to add a Shockwave grip and Remington 14" barrel to make it into Tac-14 configuration. Next step, the gun was sent to Gabe's crew to perform the transformation into an Amphibian, plain barrel, fiber optic bead sight. The Amphibian package made a capable weapon so much more effective. The barrel porting in particular worked much better than I anticipated. I could have been satisfied with the weapon at this point except I know it could be better. I needed an RMR so back to SI to have a mount installed. Shazam, now we're talking perfection: Amphibian with 7MOA amber RMR sight. Head shots with slugs 50yds and beyond, how could it get any better?

Being a trained investigator and inquisitive sort I like to do my own testing, and I tend to ask questions that get me into trouble. Like what about a folding brace? A brace might cause the Amphibian to loose some of its lightweight handling characteristics. What about recoil characteristics? Only one way to know for sure. So next addition is a folding brace with an SOB brace. Installation simple, fit and finish great.

Recoil was still the big question. My impression after the first shot was what recoil. As a leo in the 90's I've had my share of experience with riot guns, but this is definitely a different animal. The brace in concert with the ported barrel makes a very manageable weapon. My initial testing was with standard field loads not reduced recoil loads. Recoil impulse seemed straight back and lighter than with a riot gun. Aimed rapid fire was as fast as I could work the action.

While the brace changes the balance of the weapon it is nowise a negative. While I still like the Stakeout configuration, the brace is definitely an improvement. While I'm not generally a shotgun guy, this has become one of my favorite weapons.
Sure it would have been easier to just buy the complete package but by testing each change I have a much better understanding of how each modification works. Besides when I started this journey the Stakeout and Pointman packages weren't available yet.

WraithWolf
04-24-2019, 09:20 PM
I may be incorrect here, but doesn't adding that length of barrel on a firearm that was built as a Shotgun at the factory, turn it into an NFA item? I do not want to see you get jammed up, of course its hunky doory if its been registered. Sounds like a a good setup though mate. I might recommend a recoil pad for the brace. Might take some minor fitting, but it should make it even more stable when shouldered and improve the length of pull just a bit, should help get a better cheek weld.

62-10
04-24-2019, 09:38 PM
I may be incorrect here, but doesn't adding that length of barrel on a firearm that was built as a Shotgun at the factory, turn it into an NFA item? I do not want to see you get jammed up, of course its hunky doory if its been registered. Sounds like a a good setup though mate. I might recommend a recoil pad for the brace. Might take some minor fitting, but it should make it even more stable when shouldered and improve the length of pull just a bit, should help get a better cheek weld.

OP said it started life as a PGO...

Greg Nichols
04-25-2019, 10:27 AM
I may be incorrect here, but doesn't adding that length of barrel on a firearm that was built as a Shotgun at the factory, turn it into an NFA item? I do not want to see you get jammed up, of course its hunky doory if its been registered. Sounds like a a good setup though mate. I might recommend a recoil pad for the brace. Might take some minor fitting, but it should make it even more stable when shouldered and improve the length of pull just a bit, should help get a better cheek weld.

I find it funny that you were concerned about the legality of the barrel on the PGO but completely jumped right into the illegal modification of the brace. Braces can not be modified

Brent Yamamoto
04-25-2019, 12:00 PM
And you don’t need additional padding on the brace. Recoil is fine and there are no issues with cheek weld. And maybe there is some advantage to additional LOP for shotgun competition but for our purposes (fighting) the shorter LOP is better.

I will say that this set up works better with rifle sights and/or an RMR. With just a bead I have to bury my cheek into it and that part gets uncomfortable. But with the right sight package it’s a joy to shoot.

Gabriel Suarez
04-25-2019, 02:06 PM
I may be incorrect here, but doesn't adding that length of barrel on a firearm that was built as a Shotgun at the factory, turn it into an NFA item? I do not want to see you get jammed up, of course its hunky doory if its been registered. Sounds like a a good setup though mate. I might recommend a recoil pad for the brace. Might take some minor fitting, but it should make it even more stable when shouldered and improve the length of pull just a bit, should help get a better cheek weld.

Start with a Remington Tac-14 or Tac-13...have us do the magic on it...add an unmodified, unadulterated SB tactical brace...and you will end up with a totally legal and the ultimate CQB weapon in existence.

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John_Frederick
04-25-2019, 02:43 PM
I will say that this set up works better with rifle sights and/or an RMR. With just a bead I have to bury my cheek into it and that part gets uncomfortable. But with the right sight package itís a joy to shoot.

Are the Slug sights what works best with the RMR?
I've been curious about which sights do/do not cowitness with the Suarez RMR mount.

CaptShack
04-25-2019, 05:55 PM
I have the full monty SI Amphibian with an RMR and rifle sights. It is hands down the best sighting and backup sighting system for it bar none! I have an SI tactical shotgun with ghost rings and it is okay for close it work, but for slinging the slugs down range the RMR or the rifle sights are far better. There is another advantage to the RMR/rifle sight package duo sighting system is the similarity to my Glock sighting system. I am much more comfortable seeing that sight picture.

Duck52
04-26-2019, 07:20 AM
My experience with RMR and backup sights is it depends in the weapon being used. On a pistol the sights help find the dot a little faster, especially while you're still in the learning curve for the system. Pistol sights stilll help index the weapon to some degree but my primary focus is the dot.
On a longgun such as the Pointman rifle sights function more as backup, when I shoulder the weapon the dot is right there. I do not believe rifle sights add any speed to getting on target with the RMR.
I did use my Amphibian in Stakeout configuration with the RMR for a while and found it to be fast and easy to use but have no firsthand experience as whether rifle sights add anything other than a backup system.

However, if I were to do it over I would likely order an Amphibian with rifle sights. After all it's good to have a backup system since every day isn't a sunny day at the square range.

WraithWolf
04-29-2019, 09:41 AM
I find it funny that you were concerned about the legality of the barrel on the PGO but completely jumped right into the illegal modification of the brace. Braces can not be modified

Thanks for letting me know. I am still doing my research on the whole brace setup on certain firearms. SI will be my go to for my TAC-14. Valid point that I had not read before.
62-10: From what I understand about a 18" PGOSG is that it is a shotgun as designed by the factory, removing the 18.5" Barrel and replacing it with something shorter even though you add the Raptor Grip to keep the overall length legal, the BATF still requires shotguns to have 18.5" barrels or be registered as an SBS NFA Item. The overall length of the Tac-14's, Shockwaves etc is what allows them the Firearm category which does not have the barrel length minimums attached. If I am wrong I will humbly admit otherwise though :)

Greg Nichols
04-29-2019, 09:46 AM
Thanks for letting me know. I am still doing my research on the whole brace setup on certain firearms. SI will be my go to for my TAC-14. Valid point that I had not read before.
62-10: From what I understand about a 18" PGOSG is that it is a shotgun as designed by the factory, removing the 18.5" Barrel and replacing it with something shorter even though you add the Raptor Grip to keep the overall length legal, the BATF still requires shotguns to have 18.5" barrels or be registered as an SBS NFA Item. The overall length of the Tac-14's, Shockwaves etc is what allows them the Firearm category which does not have the barrel length minimums attached. If I am wrong I will humbly admit otherwise though :)
From my understanding, a factory PGO is a PGO and doesn't have restrictions on overall length unless that is state specific law in your AO. As I read it, it's just like a Pistol AR lower, any upper can go on it as long as the lower isn't reconfigured with a stock instead of a brace.

Papa
04-29-2019, 10:04 AM
From my understanding, a factory PGO is a PGO and doesn't have restrictions on overall length unless that is state specific law in your AO. As I read it, it's just like a Pistol AR lower, any upper can go on it as long as the lower isn't reconfigured with a stock instead of a brace.

Mine as well. Weren't the first Stakeouts modified PGOs?

Greg Nichols
04-29-2019, 10:09 AM
Mine as well. Weren't the first Stakeouts modified PGOs?

Yes. Were and are. PGO is what allows the grip/brace/barrel modifications while maintaining legality.