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Gabriel Suarez
10-04-2018, 09:52 AM
Amazingly I just got an email after I posted the discussion on our force on force program integrating the "old ways" with the pistol. Here it is in essence.

"Sensei, I want to learn what you are teaching in this class but I am 65 and overweight. I can't move like you guys do. I am not the only one. There are lots of old fat guys that want to be able to defend their families".

So how do we answer this gentleman? One way is to water down what we know is important in order to be inclusive. Is that a good thing? What are the other answers? Lets share here without slamming the door on his face.

Greg Nichols
10-04-2018, 10:04 AM
It's not going to get better on it's own. You really have only 2 choices, learn to work with what you have and your limitations with the understanding that your performance and progression will be limited by your lifestyle. Or door #2, Start fixing it. Get your diet, T levels, and exercise routine down right now. I have a friend who had 2 knees worked on due to being 5'9" maybe and well over 400#. Since June he's down below 330# and still working.

There is no secret, if you're old, fat, and weak you'll never be able to defend your family as well as you can if you're fit and strong. Age is just an excuse, Ted's been around since rocks were soft, I actually think he was an upper classman to methuselah, and he's more fit than most men a third his age.

H60DoorGunner
10-04-2018, 10:07 AM
I would suggest a low carb/paleo diet and moderate exercise before he attends shooting classes.

At 65, I would expect a man to move a little slower and be a little more stiff...nonetheless, you can't defend your family if you die of a heart attack first.

Gabriel Suarez
10-04-2018, 10:10 AM
I think Ted's first airship involved wax and feathers, but my first issued pistol required flint.

I recall the helicopter pilot we had in class not long ago. A wax-and-feathers type guy who'd survived a horrendous air unit crash. Walked with a cane because he refused to think a wheel chair was for him. And he did well in class because he moved as far past his physical injuries as possible, and developed work-arounds for those he could not overcome.

Papa
10-04-2018, 10:13 AM
Well, I am old and thin, or so I'm told. I want the full benefit of any instruction regardless of my injuries and "limitations" and would feel cheated, disappointed and embarrassed if the training were watered down. Rather try my best and fail than go "lite."

Dorkface
10-04-2018, 10:13 AM
Remedial gunfighting class? Segregate them from the rest that are pushing harder. The fact is that they are in more danger of a heart attack then anything else statistically. If someone can't move then their only option is to be a meat shield and soak up rounds while their loved ones try to get away. Hopefully their family isn't out of shape.

Gunstore Commando
10-04-2018, 10:17 AM
What exactly do they think is the issue? Can't move as quick as the young'uns? Don't have the mobility? Don't have the stamina do a whole day class? Or what?

Then, if they're actually correct in thinking there's an issue, remedial exercises for whatever it is.

kabar
10-04-2018, 10:18 AM
Some thoughts...

I recall that Geezer impressed with his attitude and willingness to adapt to FOF training. Attitude means a lot. On the other hand, the reality is that peak combat effectiveness or any kind of highly physically demanding activity is really a young person's domain. There is a reason that 50 year olds aren't winning at Wimbledon.

As a business person, obviously it's up to you, Gabe, to decide how much you are willing to water down or slow down classes in order to accommodate less physically able students. There's only so far you can go before the bulk of your students get short changed and you feel like you're sacrificing too much. What if you have limited offerings of "specialty" classes with modified curriculum for those who are older and/or slower? Maybe only once in a while? You could bill them as having extra emphasis on coaching students with disabilities how to maximize their "potential" or something. (I'm not good at writing ad copy). Or perhaps steering them toward individual coaching is better in a lot of cases.

Brent Yamamoto
10-04-2018, 10:19 AM
There is no secret, if you're old, fat, and weak you'll never be able to defend your family as well as you can if you're fit and strong.

Age is just an excuse, Ted's been around since rocks were soft, I actually think he was an upper classman to methuselah, and he's more fit than most men a third his age.

This.

Ted trains in my dojo with me every week. He's an inspiration to everyone. I hope more people can be half as fit as he is by the time they get to Ted's point in life.


Not everyone moves well, I get it. There's only one way to improve that - START MOVING.

One of the wonderful things about kata is that you can do it almost anywhere. You can do it by yourself, with no one watching. You can do it as slow as you want, as often as you want.

I have been practicing Karate kata since I was 10 years old. I STILL practice kata in slow motion at times. There is nothing wrong with slow motion practice, and much can be learned from it whether you're a raw beginner, a master, or anyone in between.

And it's not a "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" thing. It's a learning how to move thing. And once you know how to move, once you've established the patterns, you can improve even more. I don't care how good you are, there is room for improvement.

Are you slow? Out of shape? Overweight? Feeling bad because you can't move well? The answer is just start doing the kata. Every day. EVERY DAMN DAY. You will get better, but only if you make a decision to get better, and only if you have the discipline to see it through.

DECIDE to practice kata for 10 minutes a day. I challenge you. 10 minutes a day is all it takes. You will get better - skill will improve and your fitness will improve.


Focus more on fitness. Exercise more, and exercise more discipline at the dinner table. Do the kata. If protecting you and yours is important to you, you will do it. If not...well...there's not much we can do to help you.

But if you are motivated, we will help get you there.

Brent Yamamoto
10-04-2018, 10:27 AM
I do not water down my classes. Period.

BUT...I will modify things for individuals.

Fitness is on the individual. It's up to you to be as fit as you can be. But injuries can be difficult to work around. Sometimes the workaround is not obvious, but that's what an experienced instructor is there to do.

I always teach the "standard" technique. The technique that is ideal. From there it can be modified based on individual limitations.

The reality is that sometimes a given technique will not be possible for someone. Example - many Karate kata have kicks, and most of those kicks are performed at stomach level. Age and injuries can put that technique literally out of reach for some people. So we modify it. Perhaps it becomes a kick to the knee, or to the shin. Or perhaps we change it to a knee strike instead of a kick. Or perhaps it just becomes a step. Being able to perform a specific kick isn't so important. Being able to perform SOMETHING is.

And I always tell my students to think for themselves. But also there are times just to listen to sensei. ;)

kabar
10-04-2018, 10:35 AM
Motivating people to get fit is really great, but from a business perspective, a lot of fat/slow/disabled guys have money and are going to spend it. Why shouldn't they be encouraged to spend it with Gabe instead of at McTacticool Training, Inc? I don't know, kinda like Suarez International Special Ed?

Greg Nichols
10-04-2018, 10:47 AM
Motivating people to get fit is really great, but from a business perspective, a lot of fat/slow/disabled guys have money and are going to spend it. Why shouldn't they be encouraged to spend it with Gabe instead of at McTacticool Training, Inc? I don't know, kinda like Suarez International Special Ed?

Well from a purely business standpoint, there are times that this becomes discouraging for those that are fit and strong if the pace of the class has to be slowed or certain drills dropped out due to the fitness level of a few in the class. Yes the old fat ones have $$$, but the young fit ones will keep coming back to classes that challenge them, if it's boring they won't and odds are the younger/fitter ones will end up attending more training in the long run that those that aren't. It's a balancing act.

Gabriel Suarez
10-04-2018, 11:00 AM
Motivating people to get fit is really great, but from a business perspective, a lot of fat/slow/disabled guys have money and are going to spend it. Why shouldn't they be encouraged to spend it with Gabe instead of at McTacticool Training, Inc? I don't know, kinda like Suarez International Special Ed?

That is a slippery slope.

The Lowest Common Denominator can be found in basic CCW classes, 99% of attendees will never seek anything additional skill development, better gear, nor anything else. There are plenty of people who cater to that market...Kel-Tec, CCW Insurance, gun magazines. Its not for me.

If I had to water down my material, I tell you what I would do. I would make one last video thanking everyone for the years we have spent, then I would turn off the lights and turn my back on the entire industry forever. At 58 years old and able to turn the lights off at any time and not giving a fresh feline fornication what anyone thinks of me, I don't have to try to appeal to everyone.

Truth - age is not an instant debilitating development.

Truth - injury can be worked around and or overcome.

Truth - in a real fight with a capable opponent, if you are not able to adapt to the fight, you will not win.

The gun industry has become an industry of compromise based on the physical and attentional inadequacy of modern westerners combined false belief that if you are able to buy a gun you are instantly the master of all you see. I am disgusted by this perspective and see my job as offering everyone the opportunity to be more than this - to be better than this. I would prefer nobody showing up to my classes and spending those three days training alone with my staff, than to compromise what makes up my system.

I would rather not teach, than have to teach compromised bullshit to make the inadequate feel powerful. The day may come when that happens...when I simply close down training due to the inability to teach what needs to be taught. Its guys like you that will decide that.

kabar
10-04-2018, 11:20 AM
I totally get it, which is why I was saying its value judgement on your part. Is it a business priority to increase business on the margins by adding services to less capable people, or is striving for excellence in everything your priority?

Maybe if you charged extra due to smaller class sizes and individual time spent for specialty classes, it would weed out the Bubba Dounuts. I just have no idea what the market for that kind of offering might be.

M1A's r Best
10-04-2018, 11:48 AM
I'm old and out of shape and you need to change what you do, or come up with something different, to accommodate me and those like me isn't the answer.

Either those people realize the reality of their age/condition and decide to do something about it or settle for a class/instructor willing to accommodate them.

I'm old and out of shape. I'm working to change that, but I'm still old and out of shape.

This time last year when I went to a gun show and walked around on the concrete for 3 hrs. I came home whipped. That evening I'd be so sore/stiff I could barely get up. The next day I'd be so sore and stiff there wasn't much I could do in the way of yard work, working on a car or upgrading the house/property.

No I can go to a gun show, walk around 3 hrs., come home, eat lunch (if I eat lunch), grab the trimmer and pull the lawnmower out of the garage and mow/trim the 3/4 acre lot my house, garage, carports, deck, etc. sit on. The next day I won't feel any effects of either activity.

This time last year I weighed 50 lbs. more than I do now. I've got another 35 to 45 lbs. I still want to lose and I'm continuing to work on that.

This time last year I wore braces on both knees. I don't remember when the last time was I wore a brace on either knee and I have almost no joint pain, it's just unreal what 50 lbs. and some time on a bicycle will do for your feet/knees/hips and your back.

This time last year I would wake up multiple times each night with back or knees hurting and have trouble getting back to sleep. Now I sometimes fall asleep and when I wake up 6 or 7 hrs. later I realize my position has been unchanged all night.

This time last year, when I got up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom I'd sometimes wonder if I would be able to hobble to the bathroom in time. Now, if I sleep till the alarm goes off at 0500 hrs. I'm out of bed and hitting the button almost before I know it and I marvel at how easy/quick the trip around the bed, out of the bedroom and down the hall to the bathroom is.

This time last year walking from my car to the firing line at the range with my guns/gear, shooting 2 or 3 hrs. and carrying my guns/gear back to the car/truck meant being whipped that evening and a good part of the next day. Now I go to the range, carry my stuff down and shoot, carry my stuff back to the car and don't have to stop half way up the hill to catch my breath and the afternoon is spent cleaning guns, sorting brass and enjoying it with no pain or tiredness.

Did I mention that until you lose 50 lbs. or so and spend some time improving your strength/coordination you absolutely will not believe how much better off you will be.

I am not the same person I was at 60 years of age. I'm in better shape now than I was at 50 years of age. I may not ever be 25 again, but I've got room to improve and I'm working on it.

People that are out of shape (as I still am) just do not understand how that affects your shooting either. You cannot shoot well when it tires you out to hold the pistol/rifle up. When it affects your breathing. When your circulation won't allow you to hold it tight, hold it steady and release that shot at the right time. Over and over and over. I was beginning to see that at the range. I know my physical conditions was keeping my groups from being what they used to be.

If people are not serious about getting into shape (and there are degrees of serious between dedicated and plumb crazy) they will never benefit from good training. Their physical condition will not allow them to receive full benefit from the training.

Cut back on the training to make it easier?

To me that is like cutting back on the caliber of pistol you carry because it's too heavy or too loud or it kicks too much (wait till you're shooting with someone who complains that an AR15 kicks them too hard). Or you cut back on the number of spare magazines you carry to save weight or carry more gum, cigarettes, chap stick in your pockets.

It's up to them. It's up to you. It's up to me. You can't do it for me. You can encourage me. You can advise me. It's still up to me to commit to improving my own physical condition.

If my views are not in line with yours. Well, okay. I'm still working on myself instead of expecting others to change to suit my condition. I'm damn sure the bad guys won't cut me any slack because I'm old and fat. And I won't be cutting them any slack either, if they come my way to harm me or mine.

JonathanNobody
10-04-2018, 11:52 AM
I’m getting older and I’m fat, but I’m stronger and thinner than I was last month. What I have learned, however, is an old and fat person who is overtly taking measures to increase his physical and mental lethality is more dangerous than one who is simply old and fat.

Standards can never be lowered at an SI course - it is the high standards that draw the fighter properly disposed to using the skill. We’re I simply old and fat, I’d work on a remedy for the weight and still take the SI course. Should the old and fat person not be able to do everything the work-around has always been there and taught. This being said, I also believe there’s a significant benefit to the SI student afforded by the quality and profession of fellow students. One can’t overlook this!

Short synopsis: The fat man overtly training to be a fighter, surrounded by fighters, is more advantageous to living longer than a fat man desiring accommodation.

This is for the mental and physical oriented classes as well, not just physical.

Brent Yamamoto
10-04-2018, 12:02 PM
Regarding teaching, the hardest thing I have to do is make a class relevant, useful and engaging to every student on the mat, from raw beginners to advanced students. I have been doing this virtually every.single.week for 15 years. I like to think I'm pretty good at it, but it's ALWAYS a challenge.

It's hard enough in the dojo, but it's even harder on the gun range.

It's much easier when there are other instructors present to help things along. Still, the lead instructor has a tremendous job to do. Keeping everyone safe, reading the pulse of the class overall, knowing when he can step on the gas and when he must step on the brake. It's a hard fucking job (not complaining, it's just part of the job).

This is one of the reasons I consider Gabe a master instructor. There are lots of guys that can teach you what to do and how to do it. Many fewer know the why behind it, and still fewer understand CLASS MANAGEMENT. There is far more going on under the surface than meets the eye of a student. Safety, pacing, recognizing student issues, making adjustments on the fly and managing not only in the moment but planning ahead for the whole arc of the class. Gabe makes all this stuff look easy.

A lowest common denominator class is not the answer.

I'm reminded of what one of my teachers told me. Essentially it's a waste of his time teaching anyone who isn't already a black belt. That's not arrogance, it's simply true.


Personally I think those that train with Gabe should put some homework in first. Follow the forum, pick people's brains. Buy the DVDs, and most important PRACTICE. THEN go train with Gabe.

I remember the first class I took with Gabe. I signed up a year in advance and trained my ass off getting ready for it. I could perform and recite the material in the DVDs almost word for word by the time I went to class.


There's nothing stopping anyone from doing the same. Old age be damned.

P.D.
10-04-2018, 12:29 PM
A buddy of mine is a 70 year old, incomplete quadriplegic who uses a wheelchair for mobility. He looks 50 and is fit. He does strength and ROM training everyday, aerobic fitness 3 days a week and hits the range for a session every week. His attitude is that he's inconvenienced - not disabled. He says he trains because his age and being in a "'chair" makes him a potential target, and learned a long time ago that you need to work hardest on fixing your weaknesses.

With my buddy's example in mind, I'd say to "Mr. Old N. Fat" that age doesn't prevent anybody from getting in shape, and "fat" is up to you and fixable.

Brent Yamamoto
10-04-2018, 12:44 PM
I hope it is clear that we aren't mocking or disrespecting those who are overweight, out of shape, or being around since rocks were soft, as the Hyena so eloquently put it.

But we must be honest that if that's you, then you have a job. If you want to excel, it's within your power to do so.

There are a lot of people that are very dangerous that are overweight. But how much more effective would the be if they were 20 pounds lighter, let alone 50?

And aside from fighting effectiveness, how much better will you feel? How much more will you be able to accomplish in a day? How much better will it make your marital activities?


We are here to help.

Greg Nichols
10-04-2018, 12:50 PM
I hope it is clear that we aren't mocking or disrespecting those who are overweight, out of shape, or being around since rocks were soft, as the Hyena so eloquently put it.

But we must be honest that if that's you, then you have a job. If you want to excel, it's within your power to do so.

There are a lot of people that are very dangerous that are overweight. But how much more effective would the be if they were 20 pounds lighter, let alone 50?

And aside from fighting effectiveness, how much better will you feel? How much more will you be able to accomplish in a day? How much better will it make your marital activities?


We are here to help.

Do you see a funny white hat?? Nope, well then it's reasonable to assume I'm not a baker, you aren't getting sugar coated anything here.

Mike O'Leary
10-04-2018, 01:54 PM
I would absolutely say do not water down the curriculum to accommodate the older or fatter students.

I am almost 57 years old and in better shape now that I have ever been. It’s all a result of the SI training I have received over the years. I realized early on in my SI training that there was something different going on here. The classes taught me to strive for excellence and perfection rather than other schools I had attended that had no idea of what excellence means.

I will openly admit that when I first started with SI that I was out of shape and fat. I would really be winded from performing some of the drills. The classes would really wipe me out, I’d need a couple of days to recover from the muscle soreness. That was a lightbulb moment for me. I realized that I needed to change for the better. I have some previous injuries from my younger years so I started off slow with just changes to my diet and light exercise. Eventually, I joined a gym and started lifting weights. It’s been almost two years now and I have made tremendous gains. I also recently started training in Krav Maga and really like it.

It takes dedication and effort to change your lifestyle. It’s not easy but the results are definitely worth it. To those who are out of shape, older, fatter or whatever, stop making excuses and make positive changes to yourself. Start off easy and build from there. You won’t regret it. The bad guys are not going to be easy on you because of your condition so why should you expect a class to be easy on you.

I am forever grateful to Gabe, his instructors and Warrior Talk for giving me the motivation to change my life.

Papa
10-04-2018, 02:30 PM
What I've noticed is that other students will often assist a limited but motivated fellow student who just doesn't give up. There's some added benefit to all in that. It's like spotting the bench press.

TSKnight
10-04-2018, 02:38 PM
Well, I am old and thin, or so I'm told. I want the full benefit of any instruction regardless of my injuries and "limitations" and would feel cheated, disappointed and embarrassed if the training were watered down. Rather try my best and fail than go "lite."

This!
Doctors told me back in '98 that I would be in a wheelchair within a couple of years.
Today I use a cane, but still walk on my own two feet. A lot of the limits from an injury or illness are more mental than physical.
"I'm old and fat" is an excuse to not do something.
For me, pain is seldom a limiting factor. Not because I don't have any, but have not been without it for so long that I simply ignore it most of the time.

I train differently than most able bodied people and often have to work harder to achieve the same results.
I have never asked an instructor to go easy on me. That would defeat the purpose of training.
A good instructor will work with a student to maximize their potential in spite of whatever physical limits they might have.

That said:
There are classes that I don't do because my presence would limit the effectiveness of the training for the rest of the students.
I have been fortunate enough to get one on one instruction more than once. Segregation isn't always a negative thing.

First priority is the student needs to be honest. Both with himself and the instructor. If that is a problem? You don't belong in class. That actually has nothing to do with not being physically fit.

Preparation prior to any training is crucial to a positive outcome. If that means losing 50lbs, so be it! Put the class off until you lose it.
Build stamina. A two day class is worthless if you crap out by noon on the first day.
Go into a class with the idea that the only way to fail is not try.

Jim Miller
10-04-2018, 03:28 PM
My answer to him is this. The solution starts in the mind. Decide what you want to be. The statements he made, that he is an old fat guy, set him up for failure. Long ago I decided that I wanted to be a dangerous man. I intend to stay dangerous until the day I die. Every day I make decisions that keep me on that path. The closer I get to it, the more I see that 65 is not old. He needs to decide that he wants to be truly dangerous to his enemies and then decide to make small, daily changes to his habits to make that decision a reality.

Jim Miller
ISA 6:8

Brent Yamamoto
10-04-2018, 03:39 PM
I know a couple guys over 65 who I would not think of tangling with unless I had a shotgun.

Gabriel Suarez
10-04-2018, 04:20 PM
56502

Excellent.

The best answer to the question, is another question -

What do you WANT to be?

valian
10-04-2018, 04:36 PM
I'm 61 years old. Not fat.
IMO someone just starting out at 65 has to realize that they are on their own more than others because no one who deserves to be compensated for their training is going to have a special class for old fat people because they would be lucky to get even one person to show up! Besides catering to old fat people is not the way to encourage them to get better.

Luckily I did not wait until old age to start training. I'm sure glad I didn't. But wherever a person starts they can get better than they are if they put their minds to it.

I've had troubles off and on over some years with injuries and surgeries but I still keep training in one form or another or many and work around the injuries while I heal. I'm 7 weeks out of surgery for a multi-faceted injury to my knee right now. I didn't sit down and become fat the past 7 weeks. I was still lifting for my upper body including the 5 weeks before my surgery when waiting for my fractured tibia to heal before I could have the surgery on my knee, and doing every possible exercise I could to maintain my leg muscles during the past 12 weeks as well. My physical therapist tells me that he has never seen anyone ,regardless of age ,in such good shape after the surgery I had as I am.

At 65 you gotta dig down and motivate yourself to start getting in better shape and believe that you can do because... well you can dude. Don't think of what you cannot do but see what you can do and then start from there and get better. If you are itchy to get going on the gun stuff find the best local classes that you can and at least start working on it. Start eating better, exercising more, lifting whatever weights you can ... wisely of course and get a doctor's check up first. A year or 2 of that and I would think you could take some of Gabe's classes as they are. Gabe's classes are not the problem and Gabe should never be considered the solution... you must be. Fighting is more mind than technique anyway and the hardest for me to transmit to others in the many years I taught students karate. Without the mindset, attitude and will, all the techniques in the world are pretty much useless. This fellow needs to be encouraged to work on his attitude first anyway. The internet is full of resources for that already too and if he is reading WT he has heard it all before but has not realized that he can adopt it and start the journey right now! I think, Gabe that you are already doing what you can for guys like this with this forum and your blogs. Either they get it and start working or they fail to encourage and motivate themselves and give up with no patience or resolve to try and persevere.

Papa
10-04-2018, 07:56 PM
And you gotta keep smiling. After a 13 year break from any sprinting except chasing crooks I decided to gradually add sprints to my short runs (under 4K). Fifty yards uphill, recover on the run, then do it again on the next circuit. Busting a gut, flying, and look down to see my black lab dancing sideways six inches in front of me, all the way, without missing a beat.

I swear the little b****** wasn't even breathing hard.

cmcampbell
10-04-2018, 09:44 PM
The older I get the more I look like food. It is up to me to be indigestible.
61 years old 6' 195 lb, post chemo ( more than 5 years ago non Hodgkins B cell Lymphoma/ RCHOP protocol, all scans good since then), arthritis in elbows, thumbs, and bad in the left knee.
So what, does not make me special. I lift, go to the Dojo 2x a week, do Dan Johns 10,000 KB swing challenge, run Stihl 440 and 660 Chainsaws to cut wood, swim laps etc.... Shoot at least weekly.
No enemy is going to give me a break because of age and injuries. I have to figure work-arounds. If you stop moving you start dying.

TFA303
10-05-2018, 08:22 AM
Scattered thoughts:

- There is no magic martial art that consists of moves that will allow weak and slow people to beat strong and fast people.

- When Mrs. 303 and I took a class with Randy, she was in some bad medical shape and had to go rest in the car a number of times. He was patient and worked with her in a very, very helpful way.

- I work with a lot of younger, hard-core guys. When I see what they're capable of, or what guys in this forum who are older than me and still harder-core are capable of, that motivates me to work more, train harder. I think that's the mindset we need to have - see what's between you and the class material you can't handle as a goal to be overcome, not some wall you'll never be able to climb.

searcher 45
10-05-2018, 09:29 AM
Someone said "Don't fight with a old man, if he can't fight, he will just kill you"

Gabriel Suarez
10-05-2018, 10:03 AM
Someone said "Don't fight with a old man, if he can't fight, he will just kill you"

A great example of wishful thinking.

Chaos
10-05-2018, 10:29 AM
Someone said "Don't fight with a old man, if he can't fight, he will just kill you"

That could be used on a Meme, but in reality, most of them end up beaten to a pulp or killed. That's reality!

M1A's r Best
10-05-2018, 12:29 PM
Don't forget the old guy in SC that shot the other guy for knocking him down. Or the old guy in FL that shot another guy at a movie theater (don't remember if they were fighting or just shouting.)

Sometimes, old guys are a little "touched." Don't care about the consequences - or don't think about them, one of the other.

Greg Nichols
10-05-2018, 12:48 PM
Why do people have to be contrary just to be contrary????? I mean really?

Me: Gunfighting is a thinking man's game

Dude: But what about that dude with downs that shot that Space Ranger?

Me: what's your point?

Dude: well.... he had Downs....

Me: so what you're saying is that AN event happened that was a statistical outlier....... Does it invalidate my point?

Dude:.... I'm just sayin'....

Me: ya.........



Do you really think the old guy in SC would have lived had he done that to me or Gabe? Do you really think some tubby geriatric is actually going to get the drop on Brent or Ted? Come on, let's get real here.

GorillaMedic
10-05-2018, 01:28 PM
"Sensei, I want to learn what you are teaching in this class but I am 65 and overweight. I can't move like you guys do. I am not the only one. There are lots of old fat guys that want to be able to defend their families".



In pure probabilities, having to fight to defend oneself or one's family is fairly unlikely, while dying young from diabetes, heart disease, or stroke is HIGHLY likely. Old fat guys have pretty poor life expectancy. It's a hard truth, but the best possible thing men in his position can do to defend their families is to fix their health and then worry about fighting techniques.

Brent Yamamoto
10-05-2018, 01:32 PM
In pure probabilities, having to fight to defend oneself or one's family is fairly unlikely, while dying young from diabetes, heart disease, or stroke is HIGHLY likely. Old fat guys have pretty poor life expectancy. It's a hard truth, but the best possible thing men in his position can do to defend their families is to fix their health and then worry about fighting techniques.

Very true.

But practicing worthwhile skills is a good place to begin building fitness. It's not the same as weights and sprints, but it's a start.

Chaos
10-05-2018, 01:35 PM
Just the mere fact that he is asking the questions and showing an interest is a nice start. He is well ahead of a lot of the general population who could really care less about personal security or what it means to them and their loved ones. Hopefully, any good, solid advice would be taken to heart by him and he would begin his new path and take it one step at a time.

M1A's r Best
10-05-2018, 03:18 PM
Not trying to be contrary. Trying to say you can't rule out the unexpected and people you don't know. Some 74 year old guy in SC just wore out several armed police officers. They didn't expect it to happen, or they'd have been doing something different. At least I hope so.

And, would you or Gabe have pushed/knocked some old man down for arguing with you on the street? Or just walked away without getting into a confrontation over a silly ass parking spot.

Gabriel Suarez
10-05-2018, 03:25 PM
Don't forget the old guy in SC that shot the other guy for knocking him down. Or the old guy in FL that shot another guy at a movie theater (don't remember if they were fighting or just shouting.)

Sometimes, old guys are a little "touched." Don't care about the consequences - or don't think about them, one of the other.

Great...lets get ping pong table and play "argue with the sensei".

The people the old asshats shot were asshats themselves. Put the old fat asshat against a skilled and fit killer and you have an old fat asshat that is dead.

So...who wants to be the old fat asshat that gets killed thinking that since he is old and has a keltec, he is immortal?

Anyone?

Gabriel Suarez
10-05-2018, 03:28 PM
Not trying to be contrary. Trying to say you can't rule out the unexpected and people you don't know. Some 74 year old guy in SC just wore out several armed police officers. They didn't expect it to happen, or they'd have been doing something different. At least I hope so.

And, would you or Gabe have pushed/knocked some old man down for arguing with you on the street? Or just walked away without getting into a confrontation over a silly ass parking spot.

Ok...you know what...you are right and I am wrong...old fat motherf*ckers are far more dangerous than me or any of my yudansha...forget I said anything. What was I thinking.

I will now go transfer more money into my investments so I can hasten my eventual retirement from this industry in which I seem less and less relevant everyday.

Brent Yamamoto
10-05-2018, 03:41 PM
So there are outliers.

How does that in any way change what we should be doing?

Training as hard as we can to be as fit, skilful, and dangerous as possible.

If anything, seems to me the outlier argument is only more evidence to train even harder.

Gabriel Suarez
10-05-2018, 03:49 PM
I dont see any outliers...I see the internet vetsion of, "Yeah but...." that eventually exasperates all teachers.

I will bet that all those muscular officers that had such a hard time with the asshat were either asshats themselves or trying hard to not hurt him.

But if you want to be like him, go ahead. You are wrong, and none here are going to validate your position.

I do agree with the post that said guys like that would be better served by joining a gym and learning food discipline first.

BKern
10-05-2018, 04:18 PM
Don't forget the old guy in SC that shot the other guy for knocking him down. Or the old guy in FL that shot another guy at a movie theater (don't remember if they were fighting or just shouting.)

Sometimes, old guys are a little "touched." Don't care about the consequences - or don't think about them, one of the other.

As in "old and fat" justifies acting out of fear aggression? Or as a pretext to using a disparity of force claim due to an inability to apply a physical resistance?

Forklift
10-05-2018, 05:11 PM
I will bet that all those muscular officers that had such a hard time with the asshat were either asshats themselves or trying hard to not hurt him.


Bingo, that would be my bet.

They're to worried about getting sued, or charged with being mean to some pos, that they pussyfoot around with them.

GrayWolf2
10-05-2018, 06:06 PM
If you are 65 and thinking of yourself as “old” (i.e. over the hill) you need to get your mind right. True you are no longer 20, but you can likely do much more than you you think you can. And today, with all the readily available information on diet and exercise, there is no need to be fat and out of shape. What most people are missing is discipline and the right priorities. I am 68. I am nothing special and have my share of aches and pains. I’m 5’8” and weigh 159 lbs. I go to the gym 5 or 6 days a week - weights, HIIT, and yoga. I’ve had two hip replacements, one of which I dislocated a couple of months ago from pushing myself. I train with Suarez on a regular basis and do the very best I can.

psalms23dad
10-05-2018, 07:56 PM
I've written about a dozen responses and and deleted them all. I have mixed feelings but here I go...

If the class has prerequisites and someone comes knowing full well they cannot fulfill those prerequisites then the instructors can and should make sure that individual isn't dragging the rest of the class down. But in a fof class there should be no mercy given by the other students. They should bring 100% and if the old fat guys can't hang they can't hang. After the class, when they go home, they will make changes or make excuses.

If there are no prerequisites for the class I'd probably have a little grace for the older men. But on flip side I'd be coming to learn and should pay less attention to what others are doing and more on what is being taught.

In summary, if a prerequisite is set my expectations for the class are going to be much higher. And yes I'm certain SI will continue to meet my expectations. This is simply my view as a customer and student.

Oscar01
10-07-2018, 03:20 PM
I know a couple guys over 65 who I would not think of tangling with unless I had a shotgun.


I know two guys like this that are more than twice my age and they're great role models. No surgeries or blood thinners etc. Proper nutrition and lifting heavy stuff. On the other hand I've met two guys under 30 already on dialysis from Type 2.

Some people want a way to win and others just want an excuse to lose.


Honestly, it's SI pushing the envelope that draws me. I'm not content with average or above-average, I want the best. Fitness, skills, and gear.

Gabriel Suarez
10-07-2018, 04:33 PM
Then boy oh boy will you be giggling with what we have coming up.

45Smashemflat
10-07-2018, 05:37 PM
To the folk talking about some recent events, I'm an engineer. Anecdotes are not data. Never forget that.

Sure, some dude's cousin's friend's mother-in-law's vet's maid's sister had a car wreck and the fact that she did NOT have on a seatbelt caused her to be thrown from the car and it "saved her life", so you don't wear a seatbelt. I'm going with my uncle, who is a 30 year State Patrolman who told me he has never unbuckled a deadman....

Train, it works. Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts.

Mike OTDP
10-07-2018, 06:24 PM
As a Gentleman of Substance (aka Fat & Ugly), I would not expect a watered-down program. If nothing else, it's not a fair bargain for the other students.

But any student of any fighting art needs to learn to fight in the way that exploits his strengths and protects his weaknesses.

WinstonSmith
10-07-2018, 06:38 PM
Iíve seen Ted move in Brentís dojo. My goal is to be like that when (if?) I reach that age.

mike28w
10-08-2018, 09:18 AM
Well, I'm ambivalent about this issue..... I definitely don't believe that an instructor should "water down" a regular course. That truly isn't fair to the students that can keep up. But I also believe that it seems a little simplistic ( and somewhat self serving as an instructor) to tell older folks who are carrying too much weight ( or have other health issues) that there is nothing that they can do or learn until they lose that #80 ( that they've probably been carrying for the last decade. You mean that there is no middle ground ?? What about that person who has emphysema or asthma ? What about the fellow who is on a blood thinner ? What makes them "unworthy" of any knowledge just because they don't fit within someone else's parameters ?

Personally, I am not particularly overweight but I have arthritis in my elbows, hands and shoulders. Throw me in a 100% FOF class and while I "might " be able to keep up most of the day.....I can tell you that I will pay for this level of activity for 4-5 days.... Please don't tell me to just tough it out , because my day job does involve the safety and well being of other people ( every day) . I am an anesthetist and absolutely must have good hand dexterity and be able to use my arms. I can't tell patients that they are getting an anesthetist that is only 75% functional today..... sorry.....

Just because I can't keep up with some admittedly remarkable people, doesn't make me undeserving of receiving the knowledge and training that I can tolerate...... Now , I am not suggesting that you are required to "teach the infirm"....I'm just saying that someone will and you can't blame us old farts for wandering over to the person who will still treat me as worthy of educating ....... Just my 2 cents...mike

Gabriel Suarez
10-08-2018, 09:36 AM
Mine in bold


But I also believe that it seems a little simplistic ( and somewhat self serving as an instructor) to tell older folks who are carrying too much weight ( or have other health issues) that there is nothing that they can do or learn until they lose that #80 ( that they've probably been carrying for the last decade.

Self-serving? Yes it is...and after 25 years in this business, accommodating others, I have decided to be self-serving. In a world of instructors telling people that everything is alright and everyone gets a trophy, I am saying that is not how I run things. I won't bullshit you to be inclusive. Did you read about the guys that came to class without limbs, with canes, guys in their seventies, who did just fine in class and who would be very dangerous adversaries in life? The guy that shows up 80 pounds overweight, who has spent the last 25 years sitting on a couch watching TV who barely manages to walk up to the target without stroking out is simply NOT ready to fight, and no amount of instructor bullshit ego-stroking is going to change that. Will I slam the door on this guy? No, but I will tell him that before he worries about coming to class he needs to go to the gym and to throw his TV in the trash. Otherwise, he is in fact, wasting his time with me. What does he want to be?

You mean that there is no middle ground ?? What about that person who has emphysema or asthma ? What about the fellow who is on a blood thinner ? What makes them "unworthy" of any knowledge just because they don't fit within someone else's parameters ?

Sorry, I am not in a position to establish a middle ground in my school. Those wanting a middle ground need to train with a middle ground school. I cannot be, nor intend to try to be, all things to all people.

Personally, I am not particularly overweight but I have arthritis in my elbows, hands and shoulders. Throw me in a 100% FOF class and while I "might " be able to keep up most of the day.....I can tell you that I will pay for this level of activity for 4-5 days.... Please don't tell me to just tough it out , because my day job does involve the safety and well being of other people ( every day) . I am an anesthetist and absolutely must have good hand dexterity and be able to use my arms. I can't tell patients that they are getting an anesthetist that is only 75% functional today..... sorry.....

The class runs at a certain speed...I am a teacher of combat...it is my duty to teach what works and the requirements therein. I can't tell a student that they are getting only 75% of the material either. But then again...I have no problem with someone sitting something out if its too much. I won't change what I teach however.

Just because I can't keep up with some admittedly remarkable people, doesn't make me undeserving of receiving the knowledge and training that I can tolerate...... Just my 2 cents...mike

mike28w
10-08-2018, 09:56 AM
....... Now , I am not suggesting that you are required to "teach the infirm"....I'm just saying that someone will and you can't blame us old farts for wandering over to the person who will still treat me as worthy of educating ....... Just my 2 cents...mike

Not trying to start a pissing contest...jmo respectfully, mike

Gabriel Suarez
10-08-2018, 10:37 AM
Not trying to start a pissing contest...jmo respectfully, mike

Nobody said we would not, but if you are going to ignore what i tell you at the outset...that you must lose weight, that you must exercise, that you must regain movement, then why bother with me or my class. Learning to be a fighter means not accepting the "fat old fart" moniker. Those who are comfortable being that, sorry...you have already lost the battle because you are already being resistive to what I have told you. With only a few years left as a teacher, I'd rather not have resistive students in my classes...if that is all I get, I'd rather not teach the class. Truth.

Gabriel Suarez
10-08-2018, 10:42 AM
Oldest student I had in class - 85. It was a force on force class
Most handicapped student - Fifty year old man - Four fingers total and one leg missing.
Most injured student - Man in sixties using a cane - survived helicopter crash...was told he'd never walk again, got off the x just fine.

All those classes taught at regular tempo. So...

https://i2.wp.com/trendingposts.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Andreas-Cahling.jpg?ssl=1

WHO DO YOU WANT TO BE?
.

mike28w
10-08-2018, 10:55 AM
How did you get my photo ?? :biglaugh:

Gabriel Suarez
10-08-2018, 11:07 AM
Thats the idea.

Look...when I have someone tell me they are fat and out of shape, I will tell them the truth...that being that way is not going to allow them to move and fight and live their lives as well as if they were not.

If they disagree then I have nothing else to say to them.
If they nod in agreement then I say, "what do you want to be?"

Dorkface
10-08-2018, 01:36 PM
Asthma? Meh. Even more reason to be in shape. I have had pretty bad asthma since I was a kid. Middle of last week after being up for about 15 hours, I work early and have a physical job, I went to the gym and lifted heavy in the squat rack. Then early next morning I wound up running over a mile with my daughter in her running club.

Brent Yamamoto
10-08-2018, 02:52 PM
But I also believe that it seems a little simplistic ( and somewhat self serving as an instructor) to tell older folks who are carrying too much weight ( or have other health issues) that there is nothing that they can do or learn until they lose that #80. You mean that there is no middle ground ?? What about that person who has emphysema or asthma ? What about the fellow who is on a blood thinner ? What makes them "unworthy" of any knowledge just because they don't fit within someone else's parameters ?


C'mon Mike.

No one every said there is "nothing they can do or learn", and no one said they are "unworthy of any knowledge". What was said was that if a guy's out of shape, he's not going to be able to fight anywhere near his potential. What was said is that he's not going to get as much out of a class if he's that out of shape. What was said is that we'll be honest about it. Or is it too simplistic to tell people the truth?

What was also said is that the door won't be slammed on people. Just don't expect sugar coated validation of poor lifestyle choices, or equivocation on what you can (can't) accomplish at a poor level of fitness.

I never talk down to students in class, but I don't lie to them either. We ALL need to be in better shape. And if a guy is interested in protecting himself and his family, then he'll take some steps to improve. And if not, then he's not really interested, is he?? I'm not a dick when I tell people this. I encourage and I try to inspire, but I am honest and I think that does people a lot more good than sugar coating things.

There is knowledge on this forum, written material as well as video. There are Gabe's books and DVDs in the store. There is plenty to learn before even coming to class. There are instructors across the country willing to help, hell, some of us will even give private lessons for those who are willing. In a private setting we can help with adjustments to work around many injuries.

There are ample resources to get in better shape. Knowledge online, books, personal trainers and fitness classes for all ages and levels. There is encouragement on this forum.

No matter what fitness level a guy is at, he can get better RIGHT NOW. Maybe he can't run, can't lift weights, but he can move. He can do the pistol kata, even at very slow speed. Hell, a guy can take dancing lessons with his wife - at least that is SOMETHING.

Every bit helps. Park farther away from the grocery store. Take a flight of stairs every day. Take 10 fucking minutes a day and do SOMETHING. Every pound you lose helps.

THERE IS A WORLD OF RESOURCES AND OPPORTUNITIES AT OUR FINGERTIPS...MORE THAN HAS EVERY BEEN AVAILABLE IN HISTORY. IT ONLY REQUIRES A DECISION AND A LITTLE DISCIPLINE.

It's a little exasperating at times.

Gabriel Suarez
10-08-2018, 02:54 PM
It's a little exasperating at times.

I know right?

The minute you say that not everyone gets a trophy some people get offended

Chaos
10-08-2018, 03:32 PM
The strong survive the easiest.

The weaker either get stronger or need to be prepared to be victimized before the stronger is.

That is the way of the land.

Not everyone is Rambo, but everyone can do "something" to better themselves physically, mentally, and spiritually. People can be what they choose to. I choose not to be a victim and I am 51 years old. I have no issues with someone weaker being targeted because they are easier.

The idea is -- JUST DO SOMETHING rather than lay around and stuff one's pie hole with trash.

mike28w
10-08-2018, 06:04 PM
Hi Brent !

I take absolutely no issue with anything you have said. I couldn't agree more. I have taken one of your classes a few years ago ( in Boise) and you definitely "practice what you preach ". I'd really like to attend another one of your classes someday.

Best, mike

M1A's r Best
10-09-2018, 05:39 AM
A few pages back I talked about the weight I'd lost and how much better/pain free I was getting around. Karma, you know?

The last three days I've been working on a carport. Up/down the ladders who knows how many times removing some of the screws, then getting the last one or two out. Working 20 ft. X 3 ft. pieces of roofing steel off the rafters by myself the first couple of days. Getting the steel roofing panels out of the truck, carrying them to the carport and getting them back upon the rafters by myself (again the first two days) and fighting to keep them in place while I got some self tapping screws through and into the metal rafters. Up/down the ladders multiple times again getting some screws started, confirming the panel was still in it's proper place and then getting all the screws in place (I bought 12 ft. panels for the replacement, which required two panels per row to replace the 20 ft. panels and with a small amount of overlap ended up with 23 ft. of cover over the truck/car vs. the original 20 ft.). Got the trim on both ends done Sunday (more trips up/down the ladder and fighting to hold the pieces in place till I got a couple screws in).

Anyway, something different. Physically. Different muscles used differently. Unusual motions, stretching out with that cordless drill, pushing to get the screws to drill through the metal. Balancing the 20 ft. panels to get them down and carried away from the work area to be re-used on an older shed down near the woods. Etc., etc.


Sore? Dog gone right I've been stiff and sore. Hard to get out of the chair, hard to get out of the bed, hard to walk around, all of that until I've been up/around for a little bit.

Reminded me that new/different actions result in new/different stress/strain and the soreness/stiffness that goes along with it. I'll be good now, till I start on the roof for that old shed.

One thing I did notice that had not occurred to me until this job. Three years ago, right after I retired, I injured my left knee. The doctor wanted to replace it and my right knee. We got into a "discussion" when I told him my right knee was fine and causing me zero problems. In the end he refused to replace the left knee unless I agreed to replacing both and we agreed he could be someone else's doctor from now on.

I limped around for weeks. Wore knee braces just about everywhere.

Then I lost 50 lbs. (diet and gym). No knee braces for several months now.

I had developed a habit of going up and down a ladder using my right leg/knee only to step up/step down due to my weaker left knee. Part of the way through the job it occurred to me that things were different now. I started "trying" to use the left knee to step up/down, you know, like normal.... And it worked fine. I had to keep reminding myself to use both legs/knees to climb up/down the ladder because using only the right knee/leg had become such a habit in the last 3 years.

Truly, you won't realize the differences till you start that journey towards losing weight and improving your strength.

jlwilliams
10-09-2018, 04:12 PM
I know some really nasty old sons of bitches with real physical limitations. The obvious takeaway is if you are old and have limitations, dangerous is still an option.

mross
10-10-2018, 11:17 AM
Been reading this and finding it very interesting. I am on this forum for the cutting edge education (pun sorta intended). I've been looking at it from my perspective and this is what I came up with. I'm Gabe's age, not old but not a young blood either. I do have issues, can't close or open my hands all the way, joints that occasionally lock, hip that has a tendency to give out. What would I want to do in a class;? everything. I know I have limiting factors, but would it stop me? I hope not but I sure would like to find out in a full bore class rather then when it counts. So, no. No watering down. If the old fat guy takes the class, well it will be a rude wake up call.

Greg Nichols
10-10-2018, 11:42 AM
Had a student in a TASI class that was wheel chair bound, and most of you know how physical I make those classes. He didn't quit and participated (with workarounds) in 99 % of the drills. Anything he couldn't do he's sit out and he still was able to keep up with the class and the dude was pretty aged, but he was fit and had the right mental attitude and mind set to come train. Had he been overweight and out of shape he wouldn't have stood a chance in my TASI. He said he worked his ass off and we came up with some cool work-arounds for him that if I ever get someone else in a chair in class I can pass on.

mike28w
10-12-2018, 08:28 AM
He didn't quit and participated (with workarounds) in 99 % of the drills. Anything he couldn't do he's sit out and he still was able to keep up with the class and the dude was pretty aged, but he was fit and.............. He said he worked his ass off and we came up with some cool work-arounds for him that if I ever get someone else in a chair in class I can pass on.

Thanks !!


"Work-arounds" is exactly the concept that I have been trying to verbalize.... Not expecting and specifically don't want the class to change..... I just need a little knowledge about how to cope.... If I do everything the way you young studs do it, I won't be able to comb my hair or put on a T-shirt for a week ( shoulder arthritis, probable rotator cuff tears).
I'm not expecting to be ready for the Seals.....just want to be better than I am now...... I'm old but not too old to learn ! :smile: mike

Captain Ron
10-12-2018, 08:54 AM
The strong survive the easiest.

The weaker either get stronger or need to be prepared to be victimized before the stronger is.

That is the way of the land.

Not everyone is Rambo, but everyone can do "something" to better themselves physically, mentally, and spiritually. People can be what they choose to. I choose not to be a victim and I am 51 years old. I have no issues with someone weaker being targeted because they are easier.

The idea is -- JUST DO SOMETHING rather than lay around and stuff one's pie hole with trash.
Have to chime in on this one with a personal example. I very recently had an accident where my unarmored body(did have a helmet) hit pavement at roughly 25-30mph, rather directly with very little skidding or rolling. I’m still walking with massive bruising and strain/sprains as opposed to crutches and casts. I attribute that to a lifetime of being an athlete and keeping in relative shape; quite simply my muscle served as armor and reinforcement, protecting my shoulders, hip, leg, and neck.

Now I’m trying to force myself to stay down and recover to allow the soft tissues to heal properly. I’m blessed! I can’t wait to get back up and going again.

Chaos
10-12-2018, 09:37 AM
Have to chime in on this one with a personal example. I very recently had an accident where my unarmored body(did have a helmet) hit pavement at roughly 25-30mph, rather directly with very little skidding or rolling. I’m still walking with massive bruising and strain/sprains as opposed to crutches and casts. I attribute that to a lifetime of being an athlete and keeping in relative shape; quite simply my muscle served as armor and reinforcement, protecting my shoulders, hip, leg, and neck.

Now I’m trying to force myself to stay down and recover to allow the soft tissues to heal properly. I’m blessed! I can’t wait to get back up and going again.

There is much truth to your post - not to mention that I am glad to hear you are doing well and that it didn't end up worse for you. I will certainly be praying for your speedy and complete recovery.

I can't count the times that I heard doctors tell people that were involved in crashes and other violent incidents that their prior state of fitness played a part in minimizing their injuries. It's more than simply looking good, it really does have multiple benefits that people simply don't think about.

Captain Ron
10-12-2018, 06:01 PM
There is much truth to your post - not to mention that I am glad to hear you are doing well and that it didn't end up worse for you. I will certainly be praying for your speedy and complete recovery.

I can't count the times that I heard doctors tell people that were involved in crashes and other violent incidents that their prior state of fitness played a part in minimizing their injuries. It's more than simply looking good, it really does have multiple benefits that people simply don't think about.
Thank you for your prayers, truly. I’m not saying I’m anything special to look at or any physical specimen, hopefully that’s not how it came across; matter of fact I’d consider myself rather lazy compared to some here.

It’s hard to add to Speed is Life’s post but the reality and magnitude of the mediocrity is stunning. It’s sad, but pearls before swine is real. You can’t make them understand or change.

Eh. An acquaintance of mine called me a pussy when I told him the leg was wearing on me that day, swelling wasn’t much better. He’s probably right. :grin:

Gunstore Commando
10-12-2018, 07:15 PM
I know some really nasty old sons of bitches with real physical limitations.

In my experience (and no joke) there isn't any other kind of really nasty old son of a bitch.

Although half the time you wouldn't even know it unless they told you.

wheel
10-16-2018, 10:33 AM
Right of the bat I vote no for specialty classes.

The person with a physical challenge PPC will perform way above their abilities keeping up with the rest of the group. Being pushed by the group who do not really know what their so called "limitations"are supposed to be.

This brings me to my second point. Because the PPC is working as hard as he can the rest of the group will work harder themselves not wanting the be "embarrassed"-being "out worked" by the dude with the physical challenge-in turn being pushed themselves.

This leads to a class with a high energy level where everybody is working as hard as they possibly can. Enjoying training that is not watered down/slowed down for one person in class. People will soon forget that there is somebody in their mists with a "disability"and will only be focused on their own training.

I personally don`t like to sit and do nothing while the rest of the group continue to train. If it could be done safely I would bring extra ammo, move to a different part of the range and to train the material already covered. Starting to get the Reps in. Having that corner of the range already set up. So that I am able to simply move over a short distance and continue shooting. Not wasting any training time. Mine/the groups.

Set the course up in such a way so that the content is not split in half of what I will be able to do. So my day of training does not end suddenly halfway through the course. Design the course in such a way that I get to move back and forth between training with the group and having to train solo throughout the day.

Have the whole group train together at the start and end of the day,placing the drills I cannot take part in, in the middle. This allows me to warm up both mentally and physically getting to grips with the training. Near the middle of the day I would already have started to think about Fighting & Training Solutions I would like to try out. Welcoming some time to mtrain solo.

Ending with the group helps me to cool down mentally and to signal that the day`s training is over.

FOOTNOTE: Their is virtually no chance that I will be attacked by another PPC. Training with "normal" people all the time gives me the best possible preparation to not only survive but to win.

Cheers
Elfie

wheel
10-25-2018, 04:02 AM
I would like to share how I thought about my training through the years and how that held me back for a long time. Secondly how what people said about my training efforts and goals had an effect on my thinking. Hoping that my words will resonate with the tribe members here dealing with physical challenges.

Stop focusing on what you can`t do, playing the IF Only Game. If I could only move perfectly-normally without a physical challenge I would be so much better at fighting Doing this your are going to waste years of valuable training time. If you have already started training you will simply go through the motions doing this, not improving. Whishing for the impossible instead of working towards an EFFECTIVE TOOLBOX THAT IS POSSIBLE FOR YOU.

Almost as bad as the If Only Game is beating yourself up. If you set aside 10 min. a day to practise dry fire and you started out doing this the first 2 days and the stopped, not having the self discipline to complete the week , telling yourself the rest of the week how you suck is not going to help. Instead the negativity will bleed into your thinking and influence the rest of your training and reaching your other goals not related to conditioning and self defence.

First focus on the fact that you at least spend 20 min a week dry firing. That the whole week was not wasted. Working on your thinking to not always focus on the negative. Next sit down and figure out what got in the way. For example if you sit down at night first with a cup of coffee, watching a bit of television with the intention of getting to your drills after the program you are watching ends but instead it turns into one more program until it is time for bed with a firm promise to do better tomorrow. You now know that you find it hard tearing yourself away from the couch when you have settled down for the day.

New Plan: Record the program. Finish your coffee "standing up" and complete your drills first, before switching on the television and settling down. Buying programs with dry fire practise.

Papa
10-25-2018, 04:24 AM
For example if you sit down at night first with a cup of coffee, watching a bit of television with the intention of getting to your drills after the program you are watching ends but instead it turns into one more program until it is time for bed with a firm promise to do better tomorrow. You now know that you find it hard tearing yourself away from the couch when you have settled down for the day.

New Plan: Record the program. Finish your coffee "standing up" and complete your drills first, before switching on the television and settling down. Buying programs with dry fire practise.

You nailed it right there. Fatigue and the list of things that must be done immediately upon homecoming often kill any resolve to train. And the short days, rain and darkness don't help. My solution, since there are no children in the house, may be to dump all my gear on the deck, throw on a headlamp, and run every day. Once you break through that wall, the rest is easier.
I need to form better habits that will stand alone once I pull the plug.

Thanks for the push.

wheel
10-25-2018, 04:28 AM
NOTE: A great habit to form is to buy your shows with productive activities like workout/posts you have being putting of that could help the tribe.

Celebrate the small victories. If you improve your strength by using a heavier weight enjoy the moment, by feeling good about noticing improvements in your strength instead of immediately tearing down your achievement by saying something like: "I am still not even close to Cabe and other tribe members here-Which quickly turn into-I will never get there. Pushing your strength away for yourself every time you manage a step forward-Setting yourself up for failure.

Keep your focus on your own goals-(Written Down in your Workout Manual) Not comparing your training to other people`s, getting hang up on the weight they are able to move, workouts like the Burpee Challenge and the drills you cannot do. Sliding back into the If Only Game.

Use this same focus to ignore people`s spiteful comments quick to point out which body part still needs work. Reminding you which muscles you find hard to train. Or their condescending looks when you express your goals/Share your training methods.

Instead push as hard as you can every single workout, stick to your plan not missing a day of training without a very good reason and again don`t simply go through the motions but make changes if you don`t notice improvements.

Cheers
Elfie

wheel
10-25-2018, 04:54 AM
It is a huge pleasure. I enjoy reading your posts and the fact that you always remind us to push hard and to strife to be our best, no excuses.

Sorry that the reply is in two parts. If I write for longer that 30 min. before sending my reply my computer freezes on the quick reply page.

cheers
Elfie

wheel
10-27-2018, 05:42 AM
This will be the last piece of writing on the topic from me. Sharing an example of how I work around a training challenge to optimize my movement.

Once you stop playing the If Only Game it is simply a case of doing the exercises that you can, getting as strong and fit as possible and optimizing the movement that you do have. Structuring your style of fighting around that.

NEEDING TO OPTIMIZE MOVEMENT (LEFT):(a) I cannot chase after the attacker because the moment a trop my arms down to the wheels they use the opportunity to attack. Unlike with wheelchair basketball/rugby players who can take advantage of the constant motion and forward momentum of their chairs to make turns using only one arm, I start my turn from a dead stop.-Only able to start moving left-Once the attacker starts to circle left.

TRAINING CHALLENGE: It would have being easier if I could make strong left turns using my left arm only- I cannot safely use a Dumbbell with my left arm. So I train Curls and Triceps Extensions only using my right arm.

SOLUTION: Sword and Dagger allows me to keep one Blade on the attacker while I complete a left turn using two movements of my right arm completing a left turn-Using my right arm requires two movements because the turn radius is bigger. Using the power in my right arm to move around and the Blade in my left hand to cut the attacker of me.

This is my Combatives solution right now. But I am still working hard on ways to complete a left turn in one movement/with my left arm. Realizing that it will improve my ability to defend the left side of my body by a 100%

Quick Note to Greg.

I have limited experience shooting so I don`t know if this Work Around Principle-Doing the Opposite will work when using a gun. It not it may be used in Force on Force.

AN EXAMPLE: If You Need to Break a Hold/Grab-Instead of escaping the hold/grab by trying to break free only using wrist strength and then pushing the attacker away from you making follow up Strikes harder-Grab the attacker yourself and pull him closer. Moving the targets of the face and throat within your reach.

Cheers
Elfie

M1A's r Best
10-28-2018, 05:16 AM
Drove home to WV Wednesday. Spent part of Thursday digging potatoes out of the garden soil. Latest they ever got the potatoes out. More rain this year than any in memory up there. Caught a 4 day stretch with no rain and got it done the last day before it started raining again.

Mattock, feet more than shoulder width apart on either side of the row/hill and you slowly work your way across the garden digging from the left/right deep enough (you hope) to not cut up potatoes with the mattock. Bent over at the waist, working your arms, shoulders, back, legs and hands as you dig, rake, pick up the potatoes, rub the set dirt off them and lay them beside the fresh dirt you've turned over/dug up. Then walking through again to turn the potatoes over to get the dirt/skin dry so you can pick them up, get the baskets to the cellar and dump them in the big wooden potato box so they'll keep through the winter.

I expected to be sore as hell Friday morning - and I wasn't!! Not a bit stiff and sore. I kept expecting, as I sat around in the house talking to mom and drinking coffee while it poured the rain outside (got them out of the ground just in time), for it to hit at some point but it never did.

Another example of the diet and the exercise being well worth it. I never asked my brother it he was stiff/sore from it. I should have, just never though about it. Probably wasn't as he lives there, works the garden all summer/fall, cuts all the firewood, etc., etc. But I should have asked, just for the heck of it.