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Dorkface
07-29-2018, 05:51 PM
So for the last year or so my Tac-14 has had the stock non ported barrel. I have worked with it extensively and put more rounds through it then I know. With low recoil rounds it is useful and with standard loads its useful but its much more physically demanding. I recently got a ported barrel with slug sights from SI with the intent of trying to quantify the difference between the set ups. I knew there was going to be some improvement but I wasn't sure how much. There hasn't been anything on WT that I have seen that had any detail other then the porting was an improvement. In past threads I have detailed some of the experiences myself, Mr. Anthony and his tiny and tenacious girlfriend have had with it. As luck would have it they were at the range with me today. Getting ready for the range today I put the stock barrel in the bag fully expecting the switch out the barrels for a direct side by side comparison. No preconceived notion of how much difference there was going to be and even expecting that there could be only a slight difference. The proof would happen on the range.

One thing I could tell at home doing some dry work was that the slug sights are a massive improvement over the bead sight given the lack of points of contact. I even put a big dot on as the bead sight on a tac 14 is just totally inadequate and while it was an improvement I wanted a better index. I wanted a rear sight. Not too long after SI started offering it and its everything I wanted. Range time today proved it.

Once we were on the range and got everything set up I showed Mr. Anthony and his girl the new barrel on the Tac-14. We did some other shooting first as it was going to involve the longer range of the bay and after it was all done it was time to put some rounds through the new barrel. I loaded up a low recoil slug and let it rip. After that first round went down range I just kinda stood there with my jaw a little open and I was basically speechless. I looked over at them and then looked back at my Tac-14 and then back to them while struggling to form any type of sentence. I was unprepared for how dramatic of a difference the porting was going to make. I fired another round just to be sure and the results were the same but this time both of them were watching. Immediately Mr. Anthonys girlfriend said "I wanna shoot it!" as I guess she saw a huge difference. Subsequently she and Mr. Anthony shot it and had the same reaction that I did. It totally changed the feel of the gun as it was no longer anywhere near as physically demanding. I had brought some standard 00 buck a long in case things went well so I put a few of those down range and the results were equally as impressive. To the point that the gap between the standard and low recoil rounds was very small.

I also did a little experimentation using the unbendable arm from Brent and I found that with the porting I could perfectly and wholly support and absorb recoil with only my support arm. With the non ported barrel it required support from both arms to absorb recoil. The decreased recoil also showed a flinch I had developed as it wasn't covered by a massive recoil impulse. It took a few rounds but I got it sorted out. My body had to realize it wasn't being punished by firing lol. I really wasn't expecting the difference to be this stark. The rifle sights and ported barrel really take it from a close up 15 yard weapon and expands the possible range out much further. I never had any doubt that the barrel from SI was going to be a quality product. I have just never seen anyone express how much of a difference there is between the stock non ported barrel vs. the ported barrel with slug sights.

I can already tell what the addition of an rmr to this is going to do. :pistol:

Steven Spaugh
07-29-2018, 07:45 PM
Good report, Dork. Now, I'm excited. I bought one of the 14" barrels, when Gabe offered them for $100. I also paid for them to port it. I have not been to the range with it. I also have not been to the range with the reduced recoil ammo. The regular buckshot demands your full attention to handle the recoil.

Now, I'm going to the range with the reduced recoil buck, and make a direct comparison with both barrels. Film at 11:00.

Regarding the rifle sights: I have been shooting shotgun to kill clays, and birds for years. When I got my Tac-14, I just aligned my eye as though I were shooting with a regular stock. My aim was just fine. My hits were where I aimed. I'm not saying that rifle sights, or an RMR would not improve that. I just don't think I will spend the money on either. BTW, that is not a judgement on anyone that does.

Mr. Anthony
07-29-2018, 07:55 PM
I was shocked at how much of a difference the porting makes. It's like a completely different weapon.

Gabriel Suarez
07-29-2018, 08:29 PM
And some had doubt...amazing isnt it.

Dorkface
07-30-2018, 08:16 AM
I have been trying to think of a good analogy to describe the difference I felt in the recoil reduction. I didn't have any way to get a precise scientific measurement but it sure felt like a good 80% reduction or maybe the difference between shooting a target load vs. a 3.5" magnum round in a stocked shotgun. Its something that I wouldn't appreciate this much if I didn't have all the previous experience with the non ported barrel.




Regarding the rifle sights: I have been shooting shotgun to kill clays, and birds for years. When I got my Tac-14, I just aligned my eye as though I were shooting with a regular stock. My aim was just fine. My hits were where I aimed. I'm not saying that rifle sights, or an RMR would not improve that. I just don't think I will spend the money on either. BTW, that is not a judgement on anyone that does.

Its entirely possible all the years of experience you have are benefiting you in this case. I am not a noob when it comes to shotguns but I am not as experienced as a lot of others. Another reason I wanted something like the slug sights as I think it would be an advantage in places where lighting wasn't nice and bright as well as when stressed and fatigued. One less thing to think about in my mind.

Gabriel Suarez
07-30-2018, 08:45 AM
Steven...I have said this a thousand times if I have ever said it once.

CLAYS AND BUNNIES ARE NOT THE SAME AS SHOOTING PEOPLE. THOSE WHO THINK SO ARE MISTAKEN (mistaken is the nice word that substitutes for other words that describe this state of mind).

Moreover...nothing excellent or worthwhile is without cost (except the free information people take for granted here).

So no matter what a deadly bunnie buster you think you are, you will be far better as a man killer if you pry open that steel wallet and release a few hostage benjamins to follow the unsolicited advice given in this thread.

jesselp
07-30-2018, 09:12 AM
Curious - how much of a difference does the porting make to perceived blast/sound levels for the shooter?

In a life or death situation I'm pretty sure I'd be willing to sacrifice some hearing for living, but I'd rather not have to. I've been around a full-length 12-gauge without hearing protection and regretted it but noticed no lasting effects, but I have a friend who was an olympic skeet shooter who has permanent hearing damage, even after wearing plugs his whole career. Is the short, ported barrel much worse?

Gabriel Suarez
07-30-2018, 09:22 AM
I used a 12 ga shotgun six,times in gunfights (about half the time a 14") . Its not an issue. My hearing is perfect.

Again Clays and Gunfighting are not the same thing. Students of the combat use of the shotgun...my advice...forever delete anything relating to bunnies or clays or,three,gun stuff.

Dorkface
07-30-2018, 09:26 AM
I didn't notice it being any worse sound or blast wise.

Brent Yamamoto
07-30-2018, 09:45 AM
I was unconvinced of the utility of the rifle sights on the Stakeout...until I tried it.

My Stakeout was one of the early ones. It had a bead, and I was able to make it work pretty well out to 15ish yards. Which is what it's intended for of course, but we like to push limits and see what we can do with our weapons.

Shooting the gun with an RMR makes it remarkably easier and definitely extends the useful range. The rifle sights give the same benefit...and it's the same sight picture as our pistols so there is a lot of commonality.

I believe the combination of rifle sights and RMR are ideal. The sights are rock solid and serve the same function as on our pistols...they are a useful back up, they aid in picking up the dot, and they serve to verify the RMR has retained zero.

Mr. Anthony
07-30-2018, 12:16 PM
Curious - how much of a difference does the porting make to perceived blast/sound levels for the shooter?





I didn't notice it being any worse sound or blast wise.

I couldn't perceive any difference as either the observer or shooter. I think a short-barreled shotgun is already about maxed out on blast.

I sort of thought we could run a test by swapping out barrels and having someone stand back a ways behind the shooter without ear pro, but it seemed unnecessary after we all shot it and no one said the blast was any different than usual.

Brent Yamamoto
07-30-2018, 12:33 PM
I've done a lot of shooting with the ported Stakeout. I don't notice any blast, it's well away from my face. Maybe the hip shooters notice it...but if that's how you're shooting the Stakeout I have zero sympathy.

My comp'd 357 Glock PDW is more blasty than the Stakeout. At least in terms of what I can feel, and comments from others.

Dorkface
07-30-2018, 12:39 PM
Makes sense since shotguns are much lower pressure compared to handgun and rifle rounds.

Fat
07-30-2018, 12:52 PM
Excited to try mine when it gets here and this thread just made me go from excited to downright giddy. I just wanted the slug sights to begin with and I appreciate SI offering to sell them to me separate but the combination of the install, porting, polishing and Cerakote convinced me to get the pry bar out and take that leap.

I seem to recall a few "casual mentions" (sarcasm for the text impaired) here on the forums about the value, not the cost of the work they do so there's that too.

Papa
07-30-2018, 01:33 PM
Makes sense since shotguns are much lower pressure compared to handgun and rifle rounds.

I have a braced 14", and don't notice any increased blast or noise.

I expect auditory exclusion in an engagement, but will use hearing pro if I have time.

Mike Heckathorn
07-30-2018, 01:44 PM
I used a 12 ga shotgun six,times in gunfights (about half the time a 14") . Its not an issue. My hearing is perfect.


I recall, at the last shotgun class, your ear pro getting knocked off before a drill... And you running 5 full power buckshot rounds through a ported 14" Pointman with no ears (and no apparent ill effects after).

Eric Tull
07-31-2018, 07:49 AM
Excellent post, Dorkface! This should be really helpful for people on the fence about purchasing a Stakeout.

https://suarezinternational.com/shotguns-and-tac-14/

Gabriel Suarez
07-31-2018, 08:01 AM
I recall, at the last shotgun class, your ear pro getting knocked off before a drill... And you running 5 full power buckshot rounds through a ported 14" Pointman with no ears (and no apparent ill effects after).

I have always advocated two things.

1. Not being so range sensitive that you "lose your sh*t" if your ear pro becomes dislodged. You see it happen all the time. A man pulls himself,out of the drill and ostensibly the fight....because an ear plug falls out.

2. Although we dont do so in class...in my own training I shoot some without ear pro. Not alot...but a few here and there.

To steal the phrase of "The Hound" Clegane from GOT...f*ck the range nazis.

Dorkface
07-31-2018, 09:28 AM
Excellent post, Dorkface! This should be really helpful for people on the fence about purchasing a Stakeout.

https://suarezinternational.com/shotguns-and-tac-14/

Thank you. I try and be useful whenever I can lol.