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View Full Version : MY IMPRESSIONS OF THE EVO



Gabriel Suarez
07-14-2018, 12:24 PM
56048

I invented the Glock PDW. That is a point of history. But it is not "the one true ultimate weapon created by the god of war". I find the ongoing desire to get , just the one gun, as ridiculous. Ask me what the best gun is and i will ask you what you want it for. Just as knife is not better than a spoon and a spoon not better than a fork, it depends on what you are intending to do. Thus there is, as Musashi once wrote, a time and a place for each weapon. A learned warrior selects the one best suited for what he expects to face.

So now we discuss the SMG. Is it better than the Glock PDW? No. Is the Glock PDW better than the SMG? No. Ask me is anything is better than something else and I will again tell you the same answer. Define a mission and I will tell you what I would select to solve it. Mission first, weapon second. I have already written why there are plenty of times that a 9mm SMG will be a better choice than a 223. If you disagree, save yourself some aggravation and skip this entire post. I will add that the full size SMG has desirable attributes over a Glock PDW if concealment is not the first choice. As well, if a more general purpose application is desired.

After having worked extensively with the UZI system some years ago, as well as having put tens of thousands of rounds through the HK MP5 system, and more recently, the AR 9mm platforms, I will say that the CZ Scorpion out distances all of them.

The UZI was the best of its breed about a decade ago, but today it is an overweight granny compared to the modern systems. It is heavy and difficult to ad a light or an optic, and the new IWI versions are no different. The MP5 was a beauty in its day and I could write my name in full auto with one. But today, even the Pakistani and Turkish clones, are overly expensive and share the difficulty of accesorizing. It would not be a first choice for me, even with my history with the weapon.

The AR 9mm seems to be the focus of most of the industry. And why not...people seem to have grown tired of buying or building 5.56 versions so all the tooling can now be used to build 9mm versions. The issue with them is the design does not lend itself to a compact SMG. The buffer tube, a crucial part of the system, prevents a true folding system for the brace/stock. And I am well aware of the very well marketed LAW folders. However...they cannot be fired in a folded configuration and for me, knowing how SMGs are used, that is a deal breaker. As well, there are various custom one-offs that have been built here and there, but I am not interested in one-off systems with their finicky magazine, ammo, and replacement parts issues.

The AR 9mm, of any make, would not be my first choice either.

The Scorpion EVO answers many wants in an SMG. With the brace/stock folded, it is as compact as an MP5 or UMP, and far more compact than any AR 9mm, and only a little longer than an UZI. It is light and as handy as the MP5. It lends itself to individualization and addition of lights and optics (which are mandatory for a modern CQB weapon). It could benefit from a better trigger, a more MP5-esque magazine release, and a few other things (which we will no doubt be addressing soon), but the same can be said for any other SMG out there.

The magazines have received a bad rap, but honestly, unless you go out hammering nails with them, I don't see a problem. It is not an AK...but then again, neither is the AR. And the Glock 33 round mag is not the be-all-end-all magazine either. It is great for a pistol, to extend its stamina...but not a best choice for an SMG.

The grey one in the pics is mine. I added an RMR and a Surefire Scout light. I have a couple thousand rounds through it thusfar and like what I am seeing. More to follow.

56049

56050

Gabriel Suarez
07-14-2018, 12:26 PM
56051

Jamison
07-14-2018, 01:05 PM
What do you think about the scorpion in the k configuration with folding stock or collapsible stock vs the original design?

I see that there is (a soon to be) factory k configuration. Do you think it might be a more beneficial configuration for the same uses as the original model?

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Greg Nichols
07-14-2018, 01:10 PM
What do you think about the scorpion in the k configuration with folding stock or collapsible stock vs the original design?

I see that there is (a soon to be) factory k configuration. Do you think it might be a more beneficial configuration for the same uses as the original model?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Like I said in the other thread. I think that when you start getting that short the SMG platform starts losing ground to the Glock PDW especially if not SBRd with a foregrip

Plus you start losing the room to mount lights and stuff

DogDoc
07-14-2018, 02:55 PM
You going to be selling these Gabe? Any chance of a group buy? I'd sooner give you the dough than the next guy.

Doc

mike135
07-14-2018, 03:55 PM
I haven't put my hands on one yet, but I'm intrigued--I definitely see the application, especially for certain shooters. I'd like to figure out if the Amtac Hornet suppressor would fit--it has a 4" section that goes over the barrel and only extends 3.7" past the muzzle.

The one option that fits between this and the Glock PDW is the B&T TP9, but it's at a very different price point!

Gabriel Suarez
07-14-2018, 04:57 PM
You going to be selling these Gabe? Any chance of a group buy? I'd sooner give you the dough than the next guy.

Doc

We could.

Rogal Dorn
07-14-2018, 05:13 PM
Interesting and all but if you'd notice the title of the thread it's about the EVO. If you want to talk about other platforms start a new thread

- Greg -

Gabriel Suarez
07-14-2018, 05:32 PM
B&T GHM9 PSTL 9MM 6" 30RD BLK - DEALER $1285, MAP $1325
LOL. I don't see the B&T doing anything harmful to the CZ EVO anytime soon.

Greg Nichols
07-14-2018, 05:36 PM
B&T GHM9 PSTL 9MM 6" 30RD BLK - DEALER $1285, MAP $1325
LOL. I don't see the B&T doing anything harmful to the CZ EVO anytime soon.

My EVO with optic, brace, and 5 aftermarket 32 round mags was about that much.

Gabriel Suarez
07-14-2018, 05:38 PM
And Grand Power? I don't know...CZ isn't going anywhere...Grand Power is imported by Eagle Imports and made in Slovakia. I would much rather seek a weapon MADE in the USA rather than one made elsewhere and then imported. There is nothing the imports do better than the CZ. Why are we already looking for alternatives?

Rogal Dorn
07-14-2018, 05:52 PM
Apologies, I was bringing up the scorpion’s closest competitors. I think the scorpion is head and shoulders above them.


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Gabriel Suarez
07-14-2018, 05:58 PM
Apologies, I was bringing up the scorpion’s closest competitors. I think the scorpion is head and shoulders above them.


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Honestly I think the Scorpion's competitors are the SIG MPX and the AR 9mm. SIG has a history of making tons of revisions on existing weapons and then discontinuing then. And the MPX price point is silly. Its like they are trying to compete with HK and the MP5.

The AR we already discussed.

B&T would need to open a factory in the USA and cut their price point in half. The Grand Power is an unknown and I don't see them being prolific any time soon.

Rogal Dorn
07-14-2018, 06:01 PM
I agree


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mike135
07-14-2018, 06:09 PM
B&T GHM9 PSTL 9MM 6" 30RD BLK - DEALER $1285, MAP $1325
LOL. I don't see the B&T doing anything harmful to the CZ EVO anytime soon.

Lol it's actually worse than that--I was referring to the TP9, which fits between the Evo and the Glock PDW in size because the magazine goes into the grip, but I don't see those anywhere for less than $1800+!

All that to say that the Evo makes a lot of sense. It's hard to make the case for anything else in this size.

Nabalfodrows
07-16-2018, 04:43 AM
How well do these feed HPs?

Gabriel Suarez
07-16-2018, 06:44 AM
All i have been shooting have been 147 jhp subsonic.

Nabalfodrows
07-16-2018, 06:52 AM
All i have been shooting have been 147 jhp subsonic.

Excellent, thank you.

Curt
07-16-2018, 10:03 AM
I've put several thousand rounds through my Scorpion and haven't had a single malfunction. I got used to the trigger before installing the trigger from CZ Custom. Now the trigger is more of a competition feel than a self defense feel (no take up, no over travel)

The Pro Stock charging handle and duckbill mag releases are a must. My mag changes are now faster than my AR mag changes. Using a Sig Romeo 4c and good ammo (Expansion Ammunition or the Browning BPT 147s) I consistently achieve 1 inch groups at 20 yards while shooting from a standing position.

Also, I've never cleaned my Evo, and I bought it used.

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Gabriel Suarez
07-16-2018, 10:05 AM
Charging handle and mag release are on my radar to "improve" as products

Curt
07-16-2018, 10:10 AM
Charging handle and mag release are on my radar to "improve" as productsThe Pro Stock options (for mag release and charging handle) are polymer, so they are more compatible than the various billet aluminum options. (aluminum components shouldn't be used with aftermarket, aluminum handguards)

I recommend the duckbill mag release from HBI because you can grab it with your thumb while ripping the mag out (and the duckbill portion provides more leverage for compressing the mag release spring). Additionally, the mad release spring is light enough that you can release the mag with your trigger finger if needed (though the mag is probably not going to fall free every time).

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Gabriel Suarez
07-16-2018, 10:18 AM
Ours will be aluminum. I don't think the addition of aluminum handguards is a best idea. They add weight just so you can add a light...which you can already do on the stock units.

The mag release I have in mind will be in the MP5 pattern. We don't advocate speed loads and other range fuckery so a light mag release is not my goal. A standard weight one that is easier to leverage is.


The Pro Stock options (for mag release and charging handle) are polymer, so they are more compatible than the various billet aluminum options. (aluminum components shouldn't be used with aftermarket, aluminum handguards)

I recommend the duckbill mag release from HBI because you can grab it with your thumb while ripping the mag out (and the duckbill portion provides more leverage for compressing the mag release spring). Additionally, the mad release spring is light enough that you can release the mag with your trigger finger if needed (though the mag is probably not going to fall free every time).

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Curt
07-16-2018, 10:37 AM
You're designing your own charging handle? It will be interesting to see what you come up with. Recognizing that training is more important than having the exact right gear, I'm extremely interested to see what improvements you think are the right improvements to the Evo.

I think I'd pay for an Evo-specific class from you once you feel like you have the hours on the platform to identify the best habits. I've had a couple of trainers that had top tier training, but they were pistol and rifle guys, not SMG guys as much.



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John3
07-16-2018, 10:41 AM
I would very much be interested in a group buy of a Suarez optimized Scorpion pistol with brace.

I have long experience with the M4 and it’s variants. A great general use carbine when you have 3 or so of your heavily armed and armored friends just a radio call away. The 9mm carbine has been interesting since I left service. This seems like a better option for civilian use. Compact enough to not be left alone. Effective enough on occasionally encountered vermin like snakes and other vicious creatures that mean harm to an Christian family.

Thanks for posting your thoughts on the CZ. I’ve been trying out 9mm carbines of friends. The AR based pistols aren’t ideal. The Sig is simply overpriced for our budget.

-john

hrd
07-16-2018, 10:42 AM
- I cut the safety lever on the right sight to be flat
- added Manticore flash hider (try to shoot without hearing protection and you'll see difference)
- HBI trigger springs
- second charging handle on the right side (why not to have two?)
I have long fingers so original magazine release is OK for me, I can easily release magazine with right index finger.
I consider replacing original stock by Zhukov but I'm not sure if it's worth to do it. Any opinion?

Curt
07-16-2018, 10:46 AM
I consider replacing original stock by Zhukov but I'm not sure if it's worth to do it. Any opinion?

The factory stock, in my opinion, is the best option. It works well and has enough of a slope to it that the user can slide his face backward and forward in order to modify the height of his eye as needed.

For the same reason, the SBTEVO brace is superior to others.

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Gabriel Suarez
07-16-2018, 11:29 AM
Yeah...I have a few things in planning for it. I will be plugging this into the MP5 system we used a few years ago. I have my own preferences of course. More will follow as I work with the platform.

madmike
07-16-2018, 01:45 PM
How do you go about building one of these weapons.Does the pistol brace avoid SBR.Can it be done with a Glock 21 SF?

Curt
07-16-2018, 01:50 PM
How do you go about building one of these weapons.Does the pistol brace avoid SBR.Can it be done with a Glock 21 SF?The link below is the viewpoint generally shared at the CZ forums regarding the Scorpion.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=69034.0

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Curt
07-16-2018, 01:54 PM
Since my post right immediately preceding this one was posted too hastily, I should say that this provides a sort of time line of the viewpoints in addition to a link in the last comment of the thread that links to the ATF letter. L

TLDR; CZ guys are putting a brace on the Scorpion and using their pistols as allowed by the ATF.

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valian
07-16-2018, 04:30 PM
Glad to see this thread as it validates most of my thoughts and my recent interest in the braced Skorpion. Looking forward to your further thoughts and development Gabe. THANKS

Mac Attack
07-16-2018, 05:14 PM
The Evo is not a bad suppressor host either.

mike135
07-16-2018, 09:30 PM
Ours will be aluminum. I don't think the addition of aluminum handguards is a best idea. They add weight just so you can add a light...which you can already do on the stock units.

Have you looked at using the CZ carbine handguard on the pistol over a suppressor? Tim at Military Arms Channel has a video showing that setup with an Omega 9K--it's pretty much exactly flush with the end of the suppressor.

It looks like that would offer a lot more options for mounting a light, and the overall length with the stock folded should still be small enough to fit into a backpack.

Greg Nichols
07-16-2018, 09:47 PM
Have you looked at using the CZ carbine handguard on the pistol over a suppressor? Tim at Military Arms Channel has a video showing that setup with an Omega 9K--it's pretty much exactly flush with the end of the suppressor.

It looks like that would offer a lot more options for mounting a light, and the overall length with the stock folded should still be small enough to fit into a backpack.

Yes. What it brings to the table is length for the floating hand technique we teach in rifle class and the carbine foreend is smoother. The problem is that it makes the whole platform longer and less user friendly for its purpose. If I were going to adopt this I'd go with a 5.56 over 9mm because you've lost the overall length advantage

mike135
07-16-2018, 11:19 PM
Yes. What it brings to the table is length for the floating hand technique we teach in rifle class and the carbine foreend is smoother. The problem is that it makes the whole platform longer and less user friendly for its purpose. If I were going to adopt this I'd go with a 5.56 over 9mm because you've lost the overall length advantage

I just assume anything I'm going to use will be suppressed if possible, so it's not adding any length past the suppressor. Of course you lose the ability to detach the suppressor to shorten the length...

But I assume you're not considering a 7" barrel 5.56 as an alternative... :smile: I think even with the carbine handguard it's close to 20" folded, but I don't have one to measure to confirm that.

For my envisioned applications, the length question is focused on whether I can fit it in a typical backpack. Briefcase/handbag is a little more limiting.

Greg Nichols
07-17-2018, 11:32 AM
I just assume anything I'm going to use will be suppressed if possible, so it's not adding any length past the suppressor. Of course you lose the ability to detach the suppressor to shorten the length...

But I assume you're not considering a 7" barrel 5.56 as an alternative... :smile: I think even with the carbine handguard it's close to 20" folded, but I don't have one to measure to confirm that.

For my envisioned applications, the length question is focused on whether I can fit it in a typical backpack. Briefcase/handbag is a little more limiting.

Ya if I were going to run a dedicated can on one I'd get the carbine fore-end for the shrouding benefit but If I were going that long I'd go with a carbine over an SMG. One of the EVOs biggest advantages is it's ability to fold down to fit in a small case.

Red Ryder
07-17-2018, 02:37 PM
The good news is we can run the regular forend and attach a suppressor when we need it. All we sacrifice is the cooler/longer forearm.

When you want it concealed, it is un-suppressed. A QD can would make it even handier when silence is part of the plan.

Greg Nichols
07-17-2018, 02:52 PM
The good news is we can run the regular forend and attach a suppressor when we need it. All we sacrifice is the cooler/longer forearm.

When you want it concealed, it is un-suppressed. A QD can would make it even handier when silence is part of the plan.

That's basically the way I see it

Nabalfodrows
07-18-2018, 01:39 AM
Hey guys, I am now setting funds aside for this.

What is the best 9mm subsonic HP round? Remington, Federal, and MagTech make loads. I would like the Federal HSTs, but it looks like velocity is over supersonic. The 147 gr Federal Hi-Shok looks like the next best thing.

ranger5
07-24-2018, 01:16 PM
Gabe,
I would be interested in purchasing one like you have in the photo.

callmebubba
07-24-2018, 01:51 PM
So this has cool factor but I’m interested to hear from those who know better than me on if this would fit in. Integrally suppressed model (still a pistol).
56121

Greg Nichols
07-24-2018, 02:10 PM
So this has cool factor but I’m interested to hear from those who know better than me on if this would fit in. Integrally suppressed model (still a pistol).
56121If I were going the NFA route I could see something like this but I think I commented above on the topic. If I were going to shorten the barrel and shroud for a super compact system then you lose all advantage to an SI Glock PDW. I'll admit a package like that is sexy as hell but I'll only spend so much on sexy, I'm more concerned about function over form

Fjordforder
07-24-2018, 10:30 PM
I was fortunate enough several months ago to play with a braced EVO owned by a friend. He had mounted a cheap RDS and a tailhook (I think) brace, I instantly fell in love with it. The trigger was decent for me, and the angle of the tailhook made for a good cheek weld for the optic. I would agree with Gabe that the weak points in the design were the charging handle and mag release. The mag release felt alien and cheap to me, having to push forward on little plastic pieces doesn`t inspire confidence in me. The charging handle was less of a concern, but enough for me to note as well.

56123

diving dave
07-25-2018, 07:58 AM
Hey guys, I am now setting funds aside for this.

What is the best 9mm subsonic HP round? Remington, Federal, and MagTech make loads. I would like the Federal HSTs, but it looks like velocity is over supersonic. The 147 gr Federal Hi-Shok looks like the next best thing.
I havent shot any over a chrono, but I run Federal 147 HST suppressed out of a 9mm AR (10.5 inch) and its super quiet.

JD Lester
07-28-2018, 07:49 PM
56150

Not my Scorpion it is a loaner from a buddy, worked with it at 15,25, and 40 yards.

I didn't change his zero it was spot on at 15 yds I ran 90 rounds through it after working with it dry Friday.

Mine is brace-less as of this writing.

v/r

JD

turnnshoot
08-18-2018, 06:25 AM
I am really glad to see SI taking an interest in the Scorpion Evo. I have had one since they first came out, and I really like this platform. As said, it is compact, light, very maneuverable, and accurate for what it is.

Mine is set up as an SBR, so I can use the excellent CZ factory folding stock. I shot it for quite awhile waiting for upgrades to come out. It was OK stock, but with some of the upgrades available now it is so much better.

My opinion is that there are two things that really need fixed on the Scorpion. The absolutely terrible trigger pull, and the safety hitting your hand on the right side. I replaced the trigger springs, and changed the pull weight on the trigger from 9 1/2 lbs to 4 3/4 lbs. Changing the springs also improved the overall trigger action to the point where I find the action to be quite acceptable in this type of gun.

I changed the grip to one like the SI grip, and found with the different angle that I did not need to change the right hand safety to keep it from banging my hand. I like the factory safeties, so that was a big plus for me. The different grip angle was also a plus. I also changed the charging handle to an extended polymer one. I didn't care for the roughness of the three rails in the front so I put on La Rue little rail cover tabs, which solved that problem.

Other accessories are: a direct mount Silencerco Octane 9, a Vortex Spitfire prism red dot with a QD mount, a Streamlight TLR-1 HL, a Vickers 1" sling, mounted with U-Loops, and plenty of mags.
I have mags from CZs original 20, and 30 round batches, and have had no problems at all. I leave all of them loaded, so that if there are going to be problems they happen.
I did shorten the springs in my 20 rd mags. CZ used the same springs in their 20s, as in their 30s.

I can't wait to see what SI is going to come up with for the Scorpion. I am very happy with mine, and the upgrades that I have done. Mine is my go to HD gun, and I feel comfortable with it's abilities. I have quite a few rounds through it of all kinds, and it hasn't had a failure. One thing that i don't think has been mentioned, if you are thinking of getting one, is that a Scorpion is a really fun gun to shoot. My friends are always wanting to ger their hands on it just for fun shooting.

John_Frederick
09-14-2018, 11:11 AM
I can't imagine what the advantages here would be, not in 9mm anyway, but this is coming apparently... I guess for sure it will look amazing on Instagram pages.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180914/4c66c24d50a9f98552026a7688d1dc68.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180915/c8d5d57f3fb76451708b2e8c4f332662.jpg

RobertGuy
09-16-2018, 09:33 AM
The bore axis looks concerning to me.

For a bullpup, I'd be considering the IWI X95.

RobertGuy
09-16-2018, 09:43 AM
It sounds like there's two thoughts going on with the PCC:

1) Something compact that can fit into a bag or compact for a vehicle, rapid deployment, some sort of shouldering device for accuracy/faster.
Would be too narrow of a probability for me, and more of a niche for my area.

2) Home CQB.
Some people will say 5.56 from home sized bedrooms is extremely loud and will negatively affect them by some amount.
Others will say enclosed 5.56 doesn't affect them at all.
Since I've read modern 9mm HP is adequate for CQB/home defense range, I'll take the 9mm noise advantage.
...hence the PCC for enclosed CQB. But then again, others will say pistol calibers are anemic.

Brent Yamamoto
09-16-2018, 10:14 AM
...others will say pistol calibers are anemic.

Not when that 9mm is in the face! :)

Brent Yamamoto
09-16-2018, 10:32 AM
I can't imagine what the advantages here would be, not in 9mm anyway, but this is coming apparently... I guess for sure it will look amazing on Instagram pages.


I can see a couple benefits.

The main benefit is minimizing the length of the gun forward of the pistol grip. This would be especially useful if there's a requirement for a suppressor. Of course that would require either making the gun an SBR or making it an integrally suppressed barrel. Either of which are possible if you really need it.

This will also maintain the mass of the system, which is one of the benefits of a true SMG over the Glock PDW.

Which is all cool...but you still end up with a gun that looks as big as a Tavor.

The bullpup version allows for suppression with the shortest possible length forward of the firing grip. The standard configuration allows for a much smaller package that is legally a pistol and can be folded up into a briefcase. It's a trade off and really depends on what is most important to you.

Because I have a Glock PDW with a folder, I have the small, concealable niche covered. So I can absolutely see where the bullpup EVO would fit a different spot in my arsenal...but that would very much be a want rather than a need.

I would be a lot more interested in a bullpup in 357 Sig. Or even 40. Either of these calibers benefit more from a longer barrel than 9mm.

RobertGuy
09-16-2018, 10:34 AM
Not when that 9mm is in the face! :)

+1 thanks Brent.

It is going to take me a ton of practice to be good/fast enough to hit the face in close quarters under high duress with bad guys shooting back. May also take more the one shot; against the opportunity the bad guys have.
Which is why others have been sticking to a shotgun pattern....More opportunity to hit the face.

RobertGuy
09-16-2018, 10:37 AM
Doesn't the bullpup design allow you to shoot one-handed with the stock against the shoulder?

Brent Yamamoto
09-16-2018, 11:36 AM
It is going to take me a ton of practice to be good/fast enough to hit the face in close quarters under high duress with bad guys shooting back. May also take more the one shot; against the opportunity the bad guys have.
Which is why others have been sticking to a shotgun pattern....More opportunity to hit the face.

Depends on lots of things.

Shotgun is a great choice...if you know all your family is not in the line of fire. Sometimes you need more precision than the scatter gun will allow.

Ton of practice, yes. But that is our standard for everything. A shoulder weapon is easier to do this than with a pistol, so that's one benefit. If the shot is proactive, you'll have a little more time to sharpen your verification of sight alignment. If it's a two way exchange, you take the shots you can get. Under pressure we aim center of mass but the plan is to zipper up toward the face. One benefit of a bullpup sized gun is that recoil is going to be minimal and that's going to help with speed and accuracy. All the better if it's suppressed.


Doesn't the bullpup design allow you to shoot one-handed with the stock against the shoulder?

Yes, this is a benefit I neglected to mention.

Greg Nichols
09-16-2018, 12:36 PM
Doesn't the bullpup design allow you to shoot one-handed with the stock against the shoulder?

If you have the upper body strength you can do that with nearly anything

Brent Yamamoto
09-16-2018, 12:59 PM
If you have the upper body strength you can do that with nearly anything

Yes, it's not like this is difficult with the pistol braced EVO.

I do have to imagine it's better with the bullpup version. Will be good to get a chance to handle one.

Gabriel Suarez
09-16-2018, 01:55 PM
1. Those who say 9mm is anemic are parroting Jeff Coopers perspective from an era when anti personnel ammo was scarce. Perhaps those people need start having original thoughts rather can aping words they really know nothing about.

2. The bullpup evo conversion is made for those whose firearms are sex objects to rub up against rather than weapons to kill bad guys with. Do your research about what this ACTUALLY does and what you give up before getting orgasmic about it.

ronlassit
09-24-2018, 08:23 PM
The EVO has piqued my interest since its introduction, but I have yet to pull the trigger on purchasing one. The one thing about subgun calibers is the inability of the rounds to defeat body armor. It is a good weapon but the trigger on the one I used left a lot to be desired, and that safety digging into my knuckle was not really inspiring. I made up my mind that the first thing I would do if I happened to get one is take a dremel tool to the offending safety. I have been toying with the idea of the carbine version, but I may as well stick to the AR in that case. Now if you could get it in 7.62x25 and there was an abundance of 7.62x25 HP ammo, then I might be inclined to really look harder at it. That would be an interesting combination.

krav51
09-25-2018, 02:26 AM
The EVO has piqued my interest since its introduction, but I have yet to pull the trigger on purchasing one. The one thing about subgun calibers is the inability of the rounds to defeat body armor. It is a good weapon but the trigger on the one I used left a lot to be desired, and that safety digging into my knuckle was not really inspiring. I made up my mind that the first thing I would do if I happened to get one is take a dremel tool to the offending safety. I have been toying with the idea of the carbine version, but I may as well stick to the AR in that case. Now if you could get it in 7.62x25 and there was an abundance of 7.62x25 HP ammo, then I might be inclined to really look harder at it. That would be an interesting combination.

Yep the off side safety is an issue,but it's a 30 second fix with aftermarket solutions.I'll let others speak to the armor issue,although Gabe has addressed it several times here.

Gabriel Suarez
09-25-2018, 07:32 AM
+1 thanks Brent.

It is going to take me a ton of practice to be good/fast enough to hit the face in close quarters under high duress with bad guys shooting back. May also take more the one shot; against the opportunity the bad guys have.
Which is why others have been sticking to a shotgun pattern....More opportunity to hit the face.

We see shots to the face all the time in force on force. Not that difficult...specially with proper training and the right gear. With a shoulder fired weapon its easier of course, as well as with a stakeout.

Gabriel Suarez
09-25-2018, 07:35 AM
The EVO has piqued my interest since its introduction, but I have yet to pull the trigger on purchasing one. The one thing about subgun calibers is the inability of the rounds to defeat body armor. It is a good weapon but the trigger on the one I used left a lot to be desired, and that safety digging into my knuckle was not really inspiring. I made up my mind that the first thing I would do if I happened to get one is take a dremel tool to the offending safety. I have been toying with the idea of the carbine version, but I may as well stick to the AR in that case. Now if you could get it in 7.62x25 and there was an abundance of 7.62x25 HP ammo, then I might be inclined to really look harder at it. That would be an interesting combination.

With modern body armor...nothing defeats body armor. And you don't get to ask them what type they are wearing. So like with the pistol when working proactive shots (90% of shoulder fired work is proactive is it not?), the face...the face...nothing but the face.

7.62x25? Why bother...see above.

Gabriel Suarez
09-25-2018, 07:37 AM
The only bullpups I have seen worth a damn have been the FS2000 (now discontinued) and the SI modified AUG (also discontinued). All others are bottom heavy and have horrible triggers. This Evo-Pup conversion will be the same...heavy as a female sumo wrestler and with a trigger only an Ayoobian could love. Not worth the drama.

Gabriel Suarez
09-25-2018, 08:59 AM
http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?139718-BREACH-OR-BYPASS-ARMOR-SOLUTIONS

John_Frederick
09-25-2018, 12:25 PM
All others are bottom heavy and have horrible triggers. This Evo-Pup conversion will be the same...heavy as a female sumo wrestler and with a trigger only an Ayoobian could love. Not worth the drama.

Manticore has said the bullpup weighs 7lbs, 8oz which is over a pound heavier than the carbine, let alone the pistol at 5lb even sans stock/brace.

My pistol with a Tailhook on an Lage folding adapter/buffer tube, WML, DPP optic, AFG, and XTM rail covers (so everything but Christmas Lights) still weighs in at 1/2 lb less than the naked bullpup.
And I have to imagine if I had the CZ folding stock instead, more weight would drop.

John_Frederick
10-10-2018, 01:39 PM
It occurred to me to mention this regarding the Scorpion, for those of you who are new to the platform. Probably unnecessary with most of you, but just in case:
As you may know, the barrel comes from the factory with an 18x1 Birdcage flash suppressor installed.
What you may not know is that beneath that cage is a 1/2x28 thread protector hidden inside there. And it's usually only hand tight... It will quickly loosen up and start causing trouble. Bullet strikes, erratic groups, and deformation of the thread protector to the point you will not be able to remove it from the outer bird cage.
Just taken the damn thing off and be done with it... The 18x1 cage will protect the inner threads just fine.

Greg Nichols
10-10-2018, 01:43 PM
Just taken the damn thing off and be done with it... The 18x1 cage will protect the inner threads just fine.

Or, if you want to shoot it in the dark without blinding yourself because you removed the flash diffuser, you could just toss a little blue Locktite on it.

John_Frederick
10-10-2018, 02:21 PM
Or, if you want to shoot it in the dark without blinding yourself because you removed the flash diffuser, you could just toss a little blue Locktite on it.
You misunderstand me Greg... You leave on the flash diffuser. You only remove it to take off the interior 1/2x28 thread collar, then reinstall the flash diffuser. The interior thread collar does nothing for the gun inside that birdcage except cause potential issues. And the exterior flash diffuser has a locking tab collar that holds it secure so thread lock is not required.

Gabriel Suarez
10-10-2018, 02:28 PM
You misunderstand me Greg... You leave on the flash diffuser. You only remove it to take off the interior 1/2x28 thread collar, then reinstall the flash diffuser. The interior thread collar does nothing for the gun inside that birdcage except cause potential issues. And the exterior flash diffuser has a locking tab collar that holds it secure so thread lock is not required.

Yes...that is a strange locking system they came up with.

LawDog
10-10-2018, 07:59 PM
Or, if you want to shoot it in the dark without blinding yourself because you removed the flash diffuser, you could just toss a little blue Locktite on it.Better yet, throw an Omega 9K on there.

Greg Nichols
10-10-2018, 09:21 PM
Better yet, throw an Omega 9K on there.

I may, and get the carbine foreend to shroud it

LawDog
10-11-2018, 08:04 AM
I may, and get the carbine foreend to shroud itI debated that, but decided against it (given my role for the gun). The great multitude of options that exist for the Scorpion are both a blessing and a curse. It means there is no single right way to set up the gun. You have to tailor it to your use.

For a bedside gun, I think extending the hand guards to cover the can makes sense. You gain the option of extending your forward grip and protect yourself from a hot can. You also increase your sight radius, but that arguably isn't necessary for a bedside gun.

For me, the Scorpion is a traveling gun. With the "stock" folded and can removed, it's a mere 16" from stem to stern. I lose the option of a more forward grip, but gain compactness. In my role, the added sight radius would be a benefit, but I'm primarily using an RMR anyway. To prevent burns, I just put a cover on it. (I went with one of the silicone covers from Bowers. It is thinner and catches on things less than other covers.)

One modification that I've been debating is whether to add a QD device. My .300 cans are all set up with SiCo's ASR mounts. While Q maligns them, I have found them entirely satisfactory. But my Omega 9K is currently just a direct-thread. I purchased it with the intent to run it on pistols and found that I almost never actually do so. It's permanent host now is the Scorpion. One reason to add QD would be to avoid the danger of the can coming loose--but I've never actually had a problem with that, and I do a pretty good job of reaching up occasionally to twist-tighten the can when I'm running it. The primary benefit of the QD for me would be the ability to shift the 9K onto a .300 BLK. But my .300s are now set up with Omega 300s, so there isn't any real need to do that. This is a rather piddly question that probably doesn't deserve this much thought (or print space) but I keep going back and forth on which is the best plan. To QD or not to QD, that is the question. Any opinions from the tribe?

Greg Nichols
10-11-2018, 08:09 AM
With the "stock" folded and can removed, it's a mere 16" from stem to stern. I lose the option of a more forward grip, but gain compactness. In my role, the added sight radius would be a benefit, but I'm primarily using an RMR anyway. To prevent burns, I just put a cover on it. (I went with one of the silicone covers from Bowers. It is thinner and catches on things less than other covers.)


This is basically my thoughts too and why I haven't done anything to the weapon at this point. I may change my mind later down the road when I'm more inclined to drop all the cash on a can and stamp.

Brent Yamamoto
10-11-2018, 08:45 AM
Depends.

Generally speaking I prefer QD. Especially for a traveling gun that might need to fit in a smaller space.

Also, after awhile the on and off with the threads is a pain in the ass, if you move it around between long guns. But sounds like that’s not an issue for you.

QD isn’t as big a deal if it never leaves the gun, though I prefer not having to always tighten it.

But practically, with the 9k, you may find you want to mount it on a pistol. And if it’s just shooting at the range, that’s easier with threads.

John_Frederick
10-19-2018, 06:45 PM
Manticore Arms showed a prototype of their new Bullpup that actually looks like an interesting option... SBR, 8" barrel, Integrally Suppressed, 20" OAL. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181020/8b58b18469a01d9b64f43fdbefaf737c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181020/8d551448fb5554f4a005d50c03153ceb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181020/d12c7b0e58de34ec5040599eb383c3fd.jpg

Gabriel Suarez
10-19-2018, 07:00 PM
wow...a bullpup evo...yey...

Scott
11-21-2018, 05:22 AM
Lawdog,

Most quick detach setups add length over a direct thread - which you probably don't want.

HB industries has released a 5.3 inch barrel that has the HK quick disconnect lugs machined into the barrel - this would allow quick detach without added length.

Brent Yamamoto
11-21-2018, 01:26 PM
Or have something made.

56803

LawDog
11-21-2018, 03:07 PM
Lawdog,

Most quick detach setups add length over a direct thread - which you probably don't want.

HB industries has released a 5.3 inch barrel that has the HK quick disconnect lugs machined into the barrel - this would allow quick detach without added length.

This might be the solution. I almost bought one of their 3-lug barrels a while back, but they were out of stock. This might mean a new can, though. I’ll have to look at all of the 3-lug can options.


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C.J. Singleton
12-31-2018, 08:18 PM
I finally found some of the new Pmag style CZ magazines they do appear to be more durable than the older ones.

The magazine catch fits very tight on them however that was fixed with a few strokes from a file on the catch notches on the magazines.

I opened up the lower part of the catch and rounded the back a little bit they pop out smooth.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190101/dba1f69fcb59a92509ccc2ca6e1da932.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190101/036df6c9148d44a05b4641577ce38d23.jpg

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jgencinc
01-16-2019, 07:33 PM
http://soldiersystems.net/2019/01/16/magpul-introduces-grip-mag-release-and-magazine-for-the-cz-scorpion-evo-3/

"Magpul Introduces Grip, Mag Release and Magazine for the CZ Scorpion EVO 3


Like many of you, I own a Scorpion and now I’m looking forward to updating some of the parts on my gun as well as magazines, with these new accessories from Magpul.

Magpul® MOE®-EVO Grip



The Magpul MOE-EVO Grip is an optimized drop-in upgrade to the CZ Scorpion EVO 3 family of pistols and carbines. Featuring an enhanced grip angle and Magpul’s proprietary TSP texture on contact surfaces, the MOE-EVO Grip gives users unsurpassed comfort, control, and durability. This lightweight and ergonomic grip builds on the legacy of Magpul’s MOE AR and AK grips to provide CZ Scorpion EVO 3 users positive control in all conditions, with or without gloves.



Features:
· Optimized grip angle allows enhanced control with short LOP stocks and pistol configurations, with and without a brace
· Aggressive TSP grip texture increases weapon retention in all environments and is substantially more durable than grip tape
· Ergonomic design mitigates fatigue and ensures ease of access to weapon controls while maintaining a secure grip
· High-strength injection-molded polymer construction
· Easily installs with a 3mm hex wrench
· Made in U.S.A., qualifying as one U.S.-made part for 922(r) compliance

Colors BLK

MSRP $24.95

Magpul® MOE®-EVO Enhanced Magazine Release



The Magpul MOE-EVO Enhanced Magazine Release includes advanced interface geometries and surface texture on the paddle and wings to allow easy, one-handed activation and magazine removal, while still remaining unobtrusive. It lets the shooter easily release the magazine and is accessible with the firing-hand index finger or the reloading-hand thumb.



The Magpul MOE-EVO Enhanced Magazine Release is a reliable, durable, and affordable drop-in upgrade to the CZ Scorpion EVO 3 family of pistols and carbines. The paddle design allows for easy, one-handed activation and magazine extraction, maximizing economy of movement.

Features:
• Increased surface area allows for better purchase and positive release activation while remaining low-profile
• Textured ridges and an easy-to-reach paddle allow ambidextrous use, with or without gloves
• Optimized lever angle for positive activation Durable, lightweight, high-strength polymer construction
• Installs easily with a 5/32″roll pin punch

Colors BLK

MSRP $24.95

Magpul® PMAG® 35 EV9™



The PMAG 35 EV9 is a lightweight, 35-round, 9x19mm CZ Scorpion EVO 3-compatible magazine. The PMAG 35 EV9 provides optimal round stack geometry, giving the large format pistol, PCC, and SMG market Magpul reliability and increased magazine capacity in a pistol caliber magazine. Features include advanced impact-resistant polymer construction, an easy to disassemble design, and a highly impact-resistant floor plate. Additionally, the PMAG 35 EV9 features a rounds remaining capability in the form of capacity indicator windows at 10, 20, 30, and 35-round intervals. A Paint Pen Dot Matrix is provided for magazine identification, and the ridged front and back strap on the magazine body provides a secure grip in all environmental conditions. The PMAG 35 EV9 provides the CZ Scorpion EVO 3 owner the design, reliability and durability expected from Magpul, all at a competitive price point.



Features:
· 35-Round Capacity with capacity indicator windows at 10, 20, 30, and 35-round intervals
Easy to disassemble design for cleaning
· High visibility follower
· Advanced impact resistant polymer construction
· Long life stainless steel spring for corrosion resistance
· Highly impact-resistant floor plate
· Paint Pen Dot Matrix for magazine identification

Made in the U.S.A., qualifying as one U.S.-made part for 922(r) compliance

Colors BLK

MSRP $19.95"

Greg Nichols
01-16-2019, 08:18 PM
The release is almost exactly what I had in mind. I will be buying all these products. Now if they could just do a charging handle like an MP5 knob and I'd be done

Fjordforder
01-16-2019, 08:22 PM
I got to handle a few of the mags PSA is producing for their 9mm AK, it feeds from Scorpion mags and the PSA offerings seem pretty robust. Not a bad price for 35 round capacity. Just a thought.

John_Frederick
01-16-2019, 09:06 PM
The release is almost exactly what I had in mind. I will be buying all these products. Now if they could just do a charging handle like an MP5 knob and I'd be doneI too have been impatiently awaiting this development... Woo-hoo.
But I didn't have the imagination to consider your charging handle idea... I hope they read your mind!

krav51
01-17-2019, 02:16 AM
How many of you Scorpion owners are using them in the role of house guns/car guns as opposed to range PCC competition?

John_Frederick
01-17-2019, 02:21 AM
How many of you Scorpion owners are using them in the role of house guns/car guns as opposed to range PCC competition?

House gun for me... The Pmags will make me feel a lot better about keeping the mags loaded.

krav51
01-17-2019, 02:24 AM
House gun for me... The Pmags will make me feel a lot better about keeping the mags loaded.

Same here,since the new Generation CZ mags have been available anyway.Every single clear CZ or Manticore mag broke before that.

EDELWEISS
01-17-2019, 05:53 AM
Im NOT a fan of PSA (some good some bad); but I was encouraged to see the AK based 9mm that uses the Scorpion mags. I like the looks of the curved mags. Hopefully this will mean good thinks for aftermarket Scorpion mags competing with Glock Happy Sticks for PCCs.

LawDog
01-17-2019, 08:23 AM
The magazine problem is bad enough that I was debating ditching the CZ and picking up an Angstadt. The option of Magpul mags breathes new life into the platform for me. I do hope that they will eventually offer a 20-22rd magazine as well. And I hope they offer a grip with a storage compartment. I currently keep a bore snake, a couple of batteries, and a blister pack of oil in the grip, but the "door" on the bottom of the grip is just electrical tape. I'd rather have a classier option

C.J. Singleton
01-17-2019, 02:22 PM
The magazine problem is bad enough that I was debating ditching the CZ and picking up an Angstadt. The option of Magpul mags breathes new life into the platform for me. I do hope that they will eventually offer a 20-22rd magazine as well. And I hope they offer a grip with a storage compartment. I currently keep a bore snake, a couple of batteries, and a blister pack of oil in the grip, but the "door" on the bottom of the grip is just electrical tape. I'd rather have a classier optionSo far the new style CZ mags seem a great deal more robust. It's going to be awhile until the magpuls are available if their past product releases are any indication.

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extremist
01-18-2019, 08:18 AM
How many of you Scorpion owners are using them in the role of house guns/car guns as opposed to range PCC competition?

Mine is an SBR and it's my House gun, and used only occasionally for PCC competition. I know I can spend more $ to get a better trigger, just replaced the springs with HBI springs. Looking forward to getting the new MagPul accessories. I just can shoot my Wilson Combat AR9G better for PCC.

Greg Nichols
01-18-2019, 08:25 AM
I too have been impatiently awaiting this development... Woo-hoo.
But I didn't have the imagination to consider your charging handle idea... I hope they read your mind!
They don't have to read my mind, I reached out to our contact inside Magpul and passed it along.

Gabriel Suarez
01-18-2019, 08:47 AM
Or....if you have an idea, you might send it to SI staff so the providers of all the free information you enjoy here may develop a product they can profit from. Just saying.

LawDog
01-18-2019, 09:51 AM
It's going to be awhile until the magpuls are available if their past product releases are any indication.At least they're not Desert Tech. Hopefully I'll have some in hand before the next SHOT Show.

Badger
01-18-2019, 03:51 PM
Does anyone have any feedback on the SB tactical folding brace for these?

Also, what is the best magazine currently available?

Gabriel Suarez
01-18-2019, 04:20 PM
I like the SB brace and have one on the in house Evo. I don't care for the others.

Best magazine will likely be the Magpul which we will have for sale.

Badger
01-18-2019, 04:34 PM
I like the SB brace and have one on the in house Evo. I don't care for the others.

Best magazine will likely be the Magpul which we will have for sale.

Will you/do you sell the hinged brace in FDE? I didn’t see it in the store. I’m not sure which color I’m going to buy at this point. I’ll definitely buy off you guys though once I make a decision.

Gabriel Suarez
01-18-2019, 07:48 PM
I will make sure we have it in FDE.

krav51
01-22-2019, 07:42 AM
For those of you using the EVO,or any 7-9 inch barreled sub gun,are you using the same ammo as your pistol? Just curious if the extra velocity might lesson penetration to a substantial degree. thanks

Greg Nichols
01-22-2019, 07:57 AM
For those of you using the EVO,or any 7-9 inch barreled sub gun,are you using the same ammo as your pistol? Just curious if the extra velocity might lesson penetration to a substantial degree. thanks

I use the 147gr in mine.

Jon Payne
01-22-2019, 04:01 PM
I've found Ranger SXT 147's to run like a scalded dog. They suppress very well too.
For those of you using the EVO,or any 7-9 inch barreled sub gun,are you using the same ammo as your pistol? Just curious if the extra velocity might lesson penetration to a substantial degree. thanks

Badger
01-31-2019, 05:03 PM
I will make sure we have it in FDE.

Just ordered the black one for a CZ Evo I traded for. As I said on another post, thanks for taking the time to sort this stuff out, post videos, etc. Thanks again for the free forum too. I’ve saved a lot of money and time here by letting others do the R and D.

C.J. Singleton
02-08-2019, 08:54 AM
The magpul extended mag catches are now shipping. I just ordered one I'll post my thoughts soon as I have it.

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C.J. Singleton
02-15-2019, 03:52 PM
Received the Magpul mag catch today.

I'm impressed it has a paddle and the side surfaces are extended. It works well when activated with your trigger finger or with your support hand thumb.

Magpul really knocked this one out of the park its extended just enough to be more effective but not so much that it will snag on anything.

It also had zero fitment issues mags fit with it same as they did with the factory. The catch installation was easy just had to drift out a role pin swap the spring over and replace the pin didn't even have to pull the trigger housing off.

It's also half the cost of the tacky looking CNC machined options on the market.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190215/b4343c11b477714776cbff014535a693.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190215/c1fcdfc627e23934b634d57a95cbcb13.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190215/18394b51f0a59b3255ddaaf3f643e5b6.jpg

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golucky
02-17-2019, 03:29 AM
Thanks CJ , looking forward to your range report & especially when you run in your matches

C.J. Singleton
04-16-2019, 03:44 PM
Received the magpul evo 3 grip today. Substantial improvement over the factory and the previously available aftermarket options. Now I'm just waiting on the magshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190416/03ede72873561ee47621c224a5a887a2.jpg

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Gabriel Suarez
04-17-2019, 02:12 PM
What would you think of a big reduction in trigger weight with

the addition of our spring kit and bearing surfaces done in NP3?

Greg Nichols
04-19-2019, 08:47 AM
What would you think of a big reduction in trigger weight with

the addition of our spring kit and bearing surfaces done in NP3?




The trigger is pretty atrocious out of the box. I'd be interested.

ARodPDT117
04-19-2019, 11:55 AM
Would this be compatible with the EVO 3 S2 micro, sorry for a seemingly dumb question but want to double check. I have been sitting on the fence wanting to pick up a scorp and have shot buddies quite often but the trigger has kept me from making the purchase. I know I could get some sold to them, I would be interested as well.

C.J. Singleton
04-23-2019, 03:47 AM
Would this be compatible with the EVO 3 S2 micro, sorry for a seemingly dumb question but want to double check. I have been sitting on the fence wanting to pick up a scorp and have shot buddies quite often but the trigger has kept me from making the purchase. I know I could get some sold to them, I would be interested as well.If the grip is the same size as the other models I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be

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