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Jon Payne
05-05-2018, 03:38 PM
I've heard the Seecamp LWS 32 referred to as "The Rolex of Pocket Pistols". As a matter of fact, I've heard many products compared/equated to a Rolex. Even someone who doesn't care about luxury watches knows what a Rolex is. A person who may scoff at the price of a Rolex would take one greedily if offered as a gift. So I ask you; what makes a Rolex a Rolex?

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dnater
05-05-2018, 04:21 PM
Marketing.
They are excellent watches, but overpriced IMHO. I think Omegas are a much better value for comparable models, say Sea Dweller vs Planet Ocean. Each brand has their iconic designs like the Rolex Submariner or the Omega Speedmaster. I think the Omega Seamaster bracelets/clasps were better than comparable Rolex ones in prior years, but Rolex has improved them over time.

Jon Payne
05-05-2018, 04:44 PM
Marketing.
They are excellent watches, but overpriced IMHO. I think Omegas are a much better value for comparable models, say Sea Dweller vs Planet Ocean. Each brand has their iconic designs like the Rolex Submariner or the Omega Speedmaster. I think the Omega Seamaster bracelets/clasps were better than comparable Rolex ones in prior years, but Rolex has improved them over time.

Marketing alone does not explain how Rolex is listed as one of the world's most reputable companies. Last year Rolex tied BMW for 3rd. In 2016 they came in first place. In 2014, they came in at 4th. Look beyond the details of the watch.


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barnetmill
05-05-2018, 05:36 PM
What a rolex is image. If I had one I would only wear it for dress occasions. I do not consider it a watch for outdoor people that do hard work. A casio is accurate enough and it is disposable. On a pistol a proper RMR set up with accuracy work having been done and with a good trigger is practical. Gold plating with engraving is not. There are barbecue guns and watches and then there are those meant to serve.

Vigilant
05-05-2018, 06:04 PM
What a rolex is image. If I had one I would only wear it for dress occasions. I do not consider it a watch for outdoor people that do hard work. A casio is accurate enough and it is disposable. On a pistol a proper RMR set up with accuracy work having been done and with a good trigger is practical. Gold plating with engraving is not. There are barbecue guns and watches and then there are those meant to serve.There’s a lot of military and former military that tend to disagree, and wear theirs everyday. Myself, I couldn’t justify the extra $$’s over an Omega, so I purchased the Seamaster Professional.

BeardedPelican
05-05-2018, 06:11 PM
It's the fine art that requires fine skills.

Watchmaking as a whole requires skills. You are not paying for the brass that makes up the parts. You are ultimately paying for the skills that it takes to put a .18mm pinion on a 3mm drive wheel. Anything that requires skills takes money. Same goes for welding, carpentry, anything where something is produced.

barnetmill
05-05-2018, 06:25 PM
There’s a lot of military and former military that tend to disagree, and wear theirs everyday. Myself, I couldn’t justify the extra $$’s over an Omega, so I purchased the Seamaster Professional.
I guess you can wear anything for combat and hand to hand. But why would you wear a rolex? I break straps, faces and badly scratch anything that I wear when working.

You wear a rolex to impress others and even yourself (This is very important), and that is an important part of dealing with people in a civilian scenario. Wearing a rolex reeks of success to many. Especially important when you wish to sell. make some other sort of deal or lead people into your way of thinking.

The clothes, car, and even your watch are important to this. Impressing people can pay off. I do not think any enemy that you are fighting to the death really cares what you are wearing except if he kills he would pleased if it is an expensive one that he strips from your corpse. .

Johnny C!
05-05-2018, 06:35 PM
I was told many years ago that what set Rolex
apart from the other watch mfg's, is the superior
seal for the back plate. No dust or debris could get
inside.

I wanted one years ago, but never could justify
the expense and I haven't worn a wristwatch in
many years.

Gabriel Suarez
05-05-2018, 06:52 PM
Hahaha...if you are buying a Rolex to tell time, you have missed the point of the exercise.

I have an Omega 300 meter chrono, and a two tone Rolex Submariner. I didn' t buy either one to be on time. Shield Maiden has a rose gold two tone Date Just and a treebrak Presidential. She didn't get those to be on time to events either.

These are artifacts you buy because you like them, and because you can.

To say a Rolex is overpriced is like saying a European vacation is no better than a trip to Disneyland, or that hunting in Africa is like shooting ducks in Missouri.

No kids...they are not quite the same thing...not quite.

Ted Demosthenes
05-05-2018, 06:58 PM
Well put Birdman.

Q: What (if any) Omega models have 24 hr bezels?

Gabriel Suarez
05-05-2018, 06:58 PM
When I attended my brother John Chamber's reassignment send off recently, I wore a new tailored suit, a new customized Sig P239 (JC was a Sig guy), my Rolex two tone, and a small silver skull pin on my suit.

It is a sign of respect to present yourself in your best and at your best. Wearing a combat casio to such an even would have been the height of assholery and niggardliness.

I bought my gold submariner two tone for the same reason I bought Cheryl an Audi...because F*ck You Commies.

Herbert West
05-05-2018, 07:00 PM
I alternate between a president for formal occasions, a submariner for daily wear, an explorer for travel, a daytona just because I really like it, etc. I collect watches. I have a about 6-7 Rolexes, one omega, 4 Panerai, a few Brequets, and others, maybe a little more than 30 fine time pieces. Rolex is my favorite. Personal preference, prestige, image, an appreciation for works of art, which fine watches are, whatever the reason. One Richard Mille is equivalent in price to a pair of Rolexes, so in this case its not about the money. Like a favorite shirt, pistol, pair of shoes etc, I like my rolex, great everyday or formal watch when traveling. Also, when one is on foreign soil, it is easily recognizable, and in case of some untoward event a five figure item on your wrist can be exchanged/sold for other items which may be of greater necessity if circumstances require. Again this goes back to a more pedestrian gun discussion/argument, analogy, a high point for $150 will shoot like a $500 glock so why bother. Simple example, I know. Yeah Rolex timex each tell the time, so why bother. A double wide trailer will put a roof over your head just like seven figure high rise condo, a Corolla will take you to work just like an S550, true, but i prefer the Mercedes being valeted at my condo to a toyota in a trailer park, thank you.

Jon Payne
05-05-2018, 07:02 PM
Hahaha...if you are buying a Rolex to tell time, you have missed the point of the exercise.

I have an Omega 300 meter chrono, and a two tone Rolex Submariner. I didn' t buy either one to be on time. Shield Maiden has a rose gold two tone Date Just and a treebrak Presidential. She didn't get those to be on time to events either.

These are artifacts you buy because you like them, and because you can.

To say a Rolex is overpriced is like saying a European vacation is no better than a trip to Disneyland, or that hunting in Africa is like shooting ducks in Missouri.

No kids...they are not quite the same thing...not quite.

I'm really trying to get them to LOOK deeper. :dunno:

Ted Demosthenes
05-05-2018, 07:02 PM
When I attended my brother John Chamber's reassignment send off recently, I wore a new tailored suit, a new customized Sig P239 (JC was a Sig guy), my Rolex two tone, and a small silver skull pin on my suit.

It is a sign of respect to present yourself in your best and at your best. Wearing a combat casio to such an even would have been the height of assholery and niggardliness.

I bought my gold submariner two tone for the same reason I bought Cheryl an Audi...because F*ck You Commies.

A-men to all my brother!

Herbert West
05-05-2018, 07:04 PM
When I attended my brother John Chamber's reassignment send off recently, I wore a new tailored suit, a new customized Sig P239 (JC was a Sig guy), my Rolex two tone, and a small silver skull pin on my suit.

It is a sign of respect to present yourself in your best and at your best. Wearing a combat casio to such an even would have been the height of assholery and niggardliness.

I bought my gold submariner two tone for the same reason I bought Cheryl an Audi...because F*ck You Commies.

You type faster than i do and posted just prior to mine....I will steal the line "because fuck you commies"

Gabriel Suarez
05-05-2018, 07:05 PM
And should you find yourself on foreign soil...just having been paid in cash, buying a $25,000 Rolex that could have been with you when you left home, and will ride the long flight back on your wrist...and through Customs on your wrist, will diminish that $10,000 cash limit considerably at the port of entry.

Gabriel Suarez
05-05-2018, 07:06 PM
Indeed sir...that in the end is the best reason to live well and excell at all things...because f*ck you commies.

Jon Payne
05-05-2018, 07:08 PM
Why is the Rolex brand so reputable? Does the watch say something about the owner or is the owner saying something about themselves? Why would anyone wear a Rolex? Why would anyone wear an Omega? Here's a hint; I purchased an Omega SMP for myself after I sold out my first SI class and was promoted by Gabe.

Ted Demosthenes
05-05-2018, 07:12 PM
Indeed sir...that in the end is the best reason to live well and excell at all things...because f*ck you commies.

Raise your glass to meritocracy and pirate capitalism Sir;

Salud!!

barnetmill
05-05-2018, 07:26 PM
I alternate between a president for formal occasions, a submariner for daily wear, an explorer for travel, a daytona just because I really like it, etc. I collect watches. I have a about 6-7 Rolexes, one omega, 4 Panerai, a few Brequets, and others, maybe a little more than 30 fine time pieces. Rolex is my favorite. Personal preference, prestige, image, an appreciation for works of art, which fine watches are, whatever the reason. One Richard Mille is equivalent in price to a pair of Rolexes, so in this case its not about the money. Like a favorite shirt, pistol, pair of shoes etc, I like my rolex, great everyday or formal watch when traveling. Also, when one is on foreign soil, it is easily recognizable, and in case of some untoward event a five figure item on your wrist can be exchanged/sold for other items which may be of greater necessity if circumstances require. Again this goes back to a more pedestrian gun discussion/argument, analogy, a high point for $150 will shoot like a $500 glock so why bother. Simple example, I know. Yeah Rolex timex each tell the time, so why bother. A double wide trailer will put a roof over your head just like seven figure high rise condo, a Corolla will take you to work just like an S550, true, but i prefer the Mercedes being valeted at my condo to a toyota in a trailer park, thank you.
A highpoint will not shoot like a glock, and certainly not like a glock that SI has done all of the nice things too. I could do through a list of things that are wrong with high point, but most of us here know them already. If highpoints shot and carried as well as a glock I would carrying one at the moment.

You need a better analogy.
Perhaps compare a glock to a highly tuned 1911 that is finally engraved and hallmark of the gun makers art.

BeardedPelican
05-05-2018, 07:32 PM
Why is the Rolex brand so reputable? Because they have never compromised what they do
Does the watch say something about the owner or is the owner saying something about themselves? Both. It says that the owner wants to look his best, and he can look his best by wearing the best
Why would anyone wear a Rolex? Why shouldn't anyone wear a Rolex? If you look cheap, then you are cheap. A Rolex is a statement. Not just a statement about yourself but also of how you see yourself. You value what you do and you don't care what the naysayers think. You SHOULD take pride in how you look, especially if you call yourself a professional.
Why would anyone wear an Omega? To look their best, possibly commemorate a special event, possibly to remember a close friend. Many reasons, but a chinesium Casio just doesn't cut it every day.

My answers in red

Gabriel Suarez
05-05-2018, 07:40 PM
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H60DoorGunner
05-05-2018, 10:20 PM
A Rolex is better than a stainless Omega because it is made of gold. It's wealth you can carry with you. And it's far easier to wear a watch than to carry $30,000 in cash. It's also a sign of said wealth, which is important in some circles and on some occasions.

What makes a Rolex a Rolex? Hand crafted perpetual time jam packed into a miniature piece of art. The work, skill, and knowledge that goes into making that work reliably is what makes it a Rolex. The same is true of something like a Seecamp. The work, skill, and knowledge that goes into making them work as well as they do, in the same sized package, and look as good as it does, rightfully earns it the title of "Rolex of mouse guns."

Sam Spade
05-05-2018, 11:18 PM
To the original question: Pedigree makes Rolex a Rolex. It has acquired a place through meticulous attention to excellence over generations. Beyond excellence in function (which can frankly be matched by a number of vendors) is the excellence in form and service.

Lacking either heraldry or small communities where everyone knows who the good stock is, one buys a Rolex so as to be able to demonstrate that he has the background to appreciate generational excellence and the means to make it serve him. It's not so different from the school or old-world regimental tie. Those who need to understand, do.

Herbert West
05-06-2018, 06:34 AM
A highpoint will not shoot like a glock, and certainly not like a glock that SI has done all of the nice things too. I could do through a list of things that are wrong with high point, but most of us here know them already. If highpoints shot and carried as well as a glock I would carrying one at the moment.

You need a better analogy.
Perhaps compare a glock to a highly tuned 1911 that is finally engraved and hallmark of the gun makers art.
With all due respect and not to belabor the point, you missed the point of my post. Can discuss further via pm if you wish.
All the best to you sir.

EDELWEISS
05-06-2018, 06:59 AM
There will always be guys that say a ______ is fine, _______ tells time just like a Rolex, and and and. For all the reasons mentioned above and because I wanted one for years and damn well deserved it after my first combat tour. Back in the day they used to say you couldn't be SF if you didn't have mirrored sun glasses and a Rolex Submariner. I wasn't SF and I never had mirrored sunglasses and I chose a GMT Master instead of a Submariner. Now that I'm retired I'm thinking a white faced Explorer is rising to the top of the list.

As for not wearing it daily, well that's just silly. When I was in the police academy, I was told not to wear it because the job would only pay $50.00 for a broken watch. I considered that then wore my Rolex anyway and never regretted it. Once in a fight with a paint huffer, we crashed through a large store window. Somewhere during the fight the band popped (not broke but expanded like fitting over a wet suit). It stayed on my wrist and well the guy got cuffed, then I fixed the band and processed the guy with the silver face.

I do like fine watches just like I like fine cars (Audi A8) and fine guns, and dependable friends. I chose to have fewer quality items rather than lots lower quality bits. I did have a Omega Speedmaster, one of the early NASA Moon launch era watches. It was a great watch; but it never had the "it" factor for me. I gave some serious thought to the Omega Dark of the Moon; but the band was too short for my wrist. Omega doesn't make a larger model and nothing else looks right, besides would you put a Honda engine in an Audi?

I also like old pocket watches; but that's another story....

Badger
05-06-2018, 07:39 AM
Interesting thread idea Jon. Here are my thoughts on the subject:

I am an Omega man, but the question is still applicable. Back in the day, I had a much more utilitarian view of the role of a watch. I wore G-Shocks everywhere, every day. If I was in a suit in London, I had my Casio on. If I was deer hunting on my farm, I had my Casio on.

When I was around 37 or so, something changed. I started working with a guy who had a few Omegas. I admired them but just couldnít get why someone would drop around $4k on a watch. Day after day we worked together and I continually noticed his watches. Slowly, my world view changed. It dawned on me that Iíd frequently spent the same amount on stupid guns that sat in a gun safe and got used maybe three or four times a year. A good watch would actually be used roughly 5 days a week or so for around 12 hours a day.

I finally took some per diem and OT money and bought my Omega. I wear it almost daily. It reminds me of good times, and significant days. I can still show you the small scuff on the bezel from where I bumped the watch face on a wall at BP headquarters during the Deepwater Horizon disaster. I remember looking at it repeatedly when I was driving to the hospital to see my Dad after his heart attack. These days, I donít consider myself properly dressed without it.

I feel like I earned this watch just like I earned my jump wings, VA disability rating, badge and credentials, Wilson 1911, college degree, and other ďthingsĒ of value or significance. It was another milestone in my life and I look forward to the day I get to give it to my son when he reaches an appropriate age. It will last because it is a quality item. I too will last because I am a quality person.

Marketing types would probably call it branding. We brand ourselves with objects or people we want to associate with. A Rolex (or Omega in my case) is a synonym for excellence. A nice watch is definitely more than the sum of its parts. Itís almost a totem for lack of a better word. In a general sense, it shows a person knows excellence, demands it and has the means to afford it.

steve_k
05-06-2018, 07:44 AM
The man makes the Rolex, as the man makes the suit, and the car.

glockamolee
05-06-2018, 08:35 AM
I appreciate MECHANICAL time pieces, quality, and standing out just a bit. The Rolex can help with that assuming you already know who you are. BUT... so can my Tag Heuer Aquaracer Chronograph. My next watch for the stable will be an Omega or Breitling

Catalina
05-06-2018, 09:39 AM
Technical reasons that differentiates Rolex: https://www.ablogtowatch.com/10-things-know-rolex-makes-watches/

Marketing theory (opinion) that differentiates Rolex: https://dtcarguy.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/the-rolex-marketing-mix-a-success-story/

What also makes a Rolex a Rolex I believe is their control of distribution that in turn helps them control price and therefore margins. I can walk into my local Costco and buy a $7,000 Breitling at 10% to 30% discount. Occasionally they will stock Omega. Seeing a new discounted USA warranty Rolex in someplace other than an authorized Rolex jewelry store should not happen. To get any discount from an authorized Rolex dealer the salesperson might whisper she can take 5% off MSRP if you use their financing. This distribution and pricing control in turn supports a very, very strong resale market with amazing value retention in decades old Rolex timepieces. One sample of many: https://www.bernardwatch.com/Rolex/Datejust/RLX7376

chad newton
05-06-2018, 11:31 AM
I was never big on watches. If I had Extra money to waste I would get another rental property.

Jon Payne
05-06-2018, 11:52 AM
I was never big on watches. If I had Extra money to waste I would get another rental property.

I wish I could see the trees, but the damn forrest is blocking my view.


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Mike OTDP
05-06-2018, 02:02 PM
Some really interesting differences of opinion here....

From where I sit, a good mechanical watch is a delight. Exquisitely precise, elegant in form. Rolex is often thought of as the go-to...mostly because of marketing. Some of which was done for them by Ian Fleming.

Your hard-core watch enthusiasts will get into the less well-known brands. The first good watch I got was an IWC Fliegerchronograph. Which was my everyday wear watch for about a decade. It's been relegated to second place by a Bremont ALT-1Z...with squadron markings. U.S. Naval Test Pilot School. TPS graduates can order them, drop-shipped from the UK. Bigger and heavier than the IWC, with better shock mounting for the movement. My only regret was going with the dark gray face...I should have gone with the light gray or white on that one.

Papa
05-06-2018, 02:19 PM
The man makes the Rolex, as the man makes the suit, and the car.

This. Any wealthy knucklehead, pretentious wannabe or thief can wear one.

It has to do with spirit, style, elan. And no, I don't have one. I run the old Swiss Army watch the XO gave me 23 years ago on formal occasions, and plastic at work.

In my mind, I'll have earned one when the wakeup in my signature line arrives.

TangoFoxtrot
05-06-2018, 02:27 PM
Before I was born my father bought Rolexes because they were renowned as the most reliable watches. He frequently traveled and relied upon them. Among my earliest memories as a child was my Dad complaining about his Rolex breaking again and more visits to the watch shop. He said they did not hold up to the reputation. I've tried to like them, but the newer models are hard to tell time with at a glance. With my eyes not being perfect anymore todays models are awful to read the time with unless they are one of the extra large dive watches, or one of the old style Milgauss that somehow didn't get cut for being too retro. The Milgauss with the white dial is probably the easiest modern Rolex to tell time with if you have bad eyes, but I wish it had numerals instead of indices. The prestige factor seems to have started within my lifetime. I don't get it. Watches are either utilitarian or fun toys to me.

Texican_gal
05-06-2018, 04:45 PM
You wear a rolex to impress others and even yourself (This is very important), and that is an important part of dealing with people in a civilian scenario. Wearing a rolex reeks of success to many. Especially important when you wish to sell. make some other sort of deal or lead people into your way of thinking.

The clothes, car, and even your watch are important to this. Impressing people can pay off.

I used to wear a Breitling, not a Rolex. Yes, a "man's" Brietling because I'm not tiny, and I HATE those microscopic faces they put on women's watches. I liked the gold numerals that I could easily read from 12 feet away (yeah, why is my watch 12 feet away). I wore it several years, don't know if anyone noticed I was wearing a $5K watch, then sold it to a guy in NYC who had his model (exactly like mine) stolen on the street. Yes, shoulda kept it, as now I'd like to wear it again.

About "impressing" people Ė more than likely only wealthy people who like watches will really notice your watch. My Franck Muller-looking tonneau case watch (not one, it was an Orient) got a double-take look from a well-heeled fellow during a wine tasting evening. I noticed that he noticed the watch, and it got a double-take, but he quickly assessed it was not a Franck Muller.

Above all, it's important that you be happy. Craftsmanship is important. And buy once, cry once. Heh-heh.

barnetmill
05-06-2018, 06:40 PM
I used to wear a Breitling, not a Rolex. Yes, a "man's" Brietling because I'm not tiny, and I HATE those microscopic faces they put on women's watches. I liked the gold numerals that I could easily read from 12 feet away (yeah, why is my watch 12 feet away). I wore it several years, don't know if anyone noticed I was wearing a $5K watch, then sold it to a guy in NYC who had his model (exactly like mine) stolen on the street. Yes, shoulda kept it, as now I'd like to wear it again.

About "impressing" people – more than likely only wealthy people who like watches will really notice your watch. My Franck Muller-looking tonneau case watch (not one, it was an Orient) got a double-take look from a well-heeled fellow during a wine tasting evening. I noticed that he noticed the watch, and it got a double-take, but he quickly assessed it was not a Franck Muller.

Above all, it's important that you be happy. Craftsmanship is important. And buy once, cry once. Heh-heh.
Along with the Rolex, a stylish car, the proper dress and so on, is the golf course. There are exceptions, but many executive types and wannabees do a lot of their work at the 'right' club house and when they are actually golfing. To be good at golf or even to play regularly consumes a lot of time and suspect not too many here play that game seriously. It is really a game of trivialities, but it is where the big business deals often get set up.

The Rolex submariner from what I just googled is $8,550 and $7,500. If you want it just for the joy of ownership and have the money then one should buy one.

chad newton
05-06-2018, 07:22 PM
I wish I could see the trees, but the damn forrest is blocking my view.


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Hah, my uncle always had one, my dad has one. Me, I would rather have a Porsche turbo....

Jon Payne
05-06-2018, 07:36 PM
Would you believe this thread isn't about watches?
Hah, my uncle always had one, my dad has one. Me, I would rather have a Porsche turbo....

Papa
05-06-2018, 07:47 PM
It's about this particular synonym for excellence and desirability.

chad newton
05-06-2018, 08:11 PM
Would you believe this thread isn't about watches?
I know, I was just saying.:)

UNO
05-06-2018, 09:14 PM
I've heard the Seecamp LWS 32 referred to as "The Rolex of Pocket Pistols". As a matter of fact, I've heard many products compared/equated to a Rolex. Even someone who doesn't care about luxury watches knows what a Rolex is. A person who may scoff at the price of a Rolex would take one greedily if offered as a gift. So I ask you; what makes a Rolex a Rolex?

55653

The feel and precision of the artwork. The actual precision of the chronometry is crap in my opinion regarding actual time keeping, but they are very resistant to impact and hard use. Mainly, it's the whole package of durable, tasteful, and of course the name is also commanding some change, too.

Ultimately, I think the term is meant to encompass something where form is not sacrificed for function, and it feels as good to interface with as it performs (compare the bezel on a Rolex to say, a clone). The term to me means "a well finished, polished product". However...many Rolex products would better serve if they were GShock instead. Think Glock 19 vs Les Baer 1911. So maybe "the rolex" isnt always what you want.

UNO
05-06-2018, 09:22 PM
Marketing alone does not explain how Rolex is listed as one of the world's most reputable companies. Last year Rolex tied BMW for 3rd. In 2016 they came in first place. In 2014, they came in at 4th. Look beyond the details of the watch.


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This nails it! If features or performance or reliability were what mattered BMW couldn't compete at ANY price point. Instead, its customer interaction and image. DeBeers is the father of them all. Nowadays, only an idiot or a true traditionalist or a very very fund limited man would propose without a ring with a rock on it. Image. Carefully crafted. Carefully groomed. Zealously defended. Trumps performance, value, everything.

barnetmill
05-06-2018, 09:32 PM
The feel and precision of the artwork. The actual precision of the chronometry is crap in my opinion regarding actual time keeping, but they are very resistant to impact and hard use. Mainly, it's the whole package of durable, tasteful, and of course the name is also commanding some change, too.

Ultimately, I think the term is meant to encompass something where form is not sacrificed for function, and it feels as good to interface with as it performs (compare the bezel on a Rolex to say, a clone). The term to me means "a well finished, polished product". However...many Rolex products would better serve if they were GShock instead. Think Glock 19 vs Les Baer 1911. So maybe "the rolex" isnt always what you want.
Technically i have been having thoughts on a similar line. Mechanically based time pieces are not state of the art relative to keeping time. Also a well made steel revolver from a question of art is way above a glock, but which one do want with you to survive a gunfight. Even for the mechanical watches, as stated the rolex may not be the best, but many do not know it and it is image that counts.

The modern electronic watches can be made to communicate with US government timing devices and have the correct time, but as stated this is not about keeping time.

UNO
05-06-2018, 09:34 PM
I guess you can wear anything for combat and hand to hand. But why would you wear a rolex? I break straps, faces and badly scratch anything that I wear when working.

You wear a rolex to impress others and even yourself (This is very important), and that is an important part of dealing with people in a civilian scenario. Wearing a rolex reeks of success to many. Especially important when you wish to sell. make some other sort of deal or lead people into your way of thinking.

The clothes, car, and even your watch are important to this. Impressing people can pay off. I do not think any enemy that you are fighting to the death really cares what you are wearing except if he kills he would pleased if it is an expensive one that he strips from your corpse. .

People I know who wear them for practical reasons do so for money. They are as good as cash. In fact, a buddy of mine is walking off his job tomorrow. He can bridge the gap on his house and car note until he finds another job because kt the savings account in his wrist. It's good worldwide nearly, too.

UNO
05-06-2018, 09:35 PM
Technically i have been having thoughts on a similar line. Mechanically based time pieces are not state of the art relative to keeping time. Also a well made steel revolver from a question of art is way above a glock, but which one do want with you to survive a gunfight. Even for the mechanical watches, as stated the rolex may not be the best, but many do not know it and it is image that counts.

The modern electronic watches can be made to communicate with US government timing devices and have the correct time, but as stated this is not about keeping time.

Yeah, and Rolex especially. I've seen $300 Rolex reps with ETA movements keep better time than many gens.

DogDoc
05-06-2018, 10:04 PM
Actually John Calvin the famous Protestant reformer is responsible for the Rolex. When his people moved to Switzerland they brought with them a rather strong disdain for the vanity of expensive jewelry. The local Swiss jewelers were in a quandary. The Calvinists had money but wouldn’t buy jewelry. So the jewelers adapted, stopped making jewelry (which the Calvinists wouldn’t buy) and started making really fine and expensive watches (which the Calvinists would buy). After all, something as responsible and utilitarian as a watch couldn’t be vain and thus didn’t offend the Calvinists’ spiritual sensitivities.

UNO
05-07-2018, 01:59 AM
Actually John Calvin the famous Protestant reformer is responsible for the Rolex. When his people moved to Switzerland they brought with them a rather strong disdain for the vanity of expensive jewelry. The local Swiss jewelers were in a quandary. The Calvinists had money but wouldn’t buy jewelry. So the jewelers adapted, stopped making jewelry (which the Calvinists wouldn’t buy) and started making really fine and expensive watches (which the Calvinists would buy). After all, something as responsible and utilitarian as a watch couldn’t be vain and thus didn’t offend the Calvinists’ spiritual sensitivities.

I'm not a watch maven, so forgive me, but is this recognized as fact and true as to Rolex origin, or just a popular theory?

Paper Shredder
05-07-2018, 03:05 AM
Ok Iíll play. John, I was picking up what you were laying down pages of posts ago....

For me, beyond the money, status, etc that pending who is looking through the lens, I have had a Rolex gifted to me and a few Iíve purchased.

In my early 20s, for me it was a sign or facade of wealth... very superficial. Now in my wiser years, I have come to appreciate the precision and quality of the timepiece. The essence of the brand says youíve arrived. Not in wealth and excess, but youíve earned your way.

Guns and watches definitely have a lot of similarities. All get the job done (well most), but few do it with style and grace.


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Gabriel Suarez
05-07-2018, 07:15 AM
I dont get it kids.

Function is not the point...everything functions.

I got Shield Maiden a diamond and not a zirconia for our anniversary. Why...because cheap people rationalize that zirc is just as good and drone about deBeers and wave the cheap zirc as some sort of diploma of accomplishment. Sorry...its not just as good...

When I circumnavigated a mountain area recently I wore a Foretrex compass watch with GPS on my wrist, not the Omega nor the Roly. Why? Because of the mission...but I dont walk around with the "functional for that purpose" watch everyday becauae I am not in the weeds everyday.

Nor do I wear range clothing to a dinner party, running shoes with a business suit, nor take the Audi sportscar off road...because they are not appropriate for such things.

I do hope some of you are not regressing to the "my WASR is justvas good as your Noveske" stage...because no...itvis not. You may not be able to afford the Rolex...and there is no dishonor in that...but lets not justify that by claiming the Timex is the same thing...its not.

Gabriel Suarez
05-07-2018, 07:22 AM
Oh...and I conducted an experiment years ago when we were attending some meetings with investors and banks.

One meeting I would attend in common everyday functional clothing with an old Casio Pathfinder from my functional police days. The person in the meeting called me "Gabriel" and acted as if they were doing me a favor by talking with me.

Another meeting I dressed better...pressed slacks and a shirt with some starch...and the Rolex. The meeting tone was quite different with Mr. Suarez rather the familiar first name and a welcoming and deferential "how can we be of service" attitude.

Such things matter and if you think they are superficial...well good luck in life.

Ulf
05-07-2018, 07:38 AM
There will always be guys that say a ______ is fine, _______ tells time just like a Rolex, and and and. For all the reasons mentioned above and because I wanted one for years and damn well deserved it after my first combat tour. Back in the day they used to say you couldn't be SF if you didn't have mirrored sun glasses and a Rolex Submariner. I wasn't SF and I never had mirrored sunglasses and I chose a GMT Master instead of a Submariner. Now that I'm retired I'm thinking a white faced Explorer is rising to the top of the list.

As for not wearing it daily, well that's just silly. When I was in the police academy, I was told not to wear it because the job would only pay $50.00 for a broken watch. I considered that then wore my Rolex anyway and never regretted it. Once in a fight with a paint huffer, we crashed through a large store window. Somewhere during the fight the band popped (not broke but expanded like fitting over a wet suit). It stayed on my wrist and well the guy got cuffed, then I fixed the band and processed the guy with the silver face.

I do like fine watches just like I like fine cars (Audi A8) and fine guns, and dependable friends. I chose to have fewer quality items rather than lots lower quality bits. I did have a Omega Speedmaster, one of the early NASA Moon launch era watches. It was a great watch; but it never had the "it" factor for me. I gave some serious thought to the Omega Dark of the Moon; but the band was too short for my wrist. Omega doesn't make a larger model and nothing else looks right, besides would you put a Honda engine in an Audi?

I also like old pocket watches; but that's another story....

When I completed Selection and arrived at The Legion in the spring of '90, I thought I was going to get a shopping list of items to private purchase - Star Sapphire ring, Rolex Submariner, Randall knife, etc.

After being issued a pile of then "high speed" gear, I asked the Team Daddy what I needed to buy for myself.

"Get yer ass down to the Piggly Wiggly and buy Ziploc bags in every size."

" Why, Top? "

"To keep yer shit dry and because the Commissary is sold out."

I got the bags that afternoon - the ring and Rolex came later.

Fewer things of higher quality has always been my way. Using the right tool for the job makes life easier in the long run.

Herbert West
05-07-2018, 11:05 AM
Hah, my uncle always had one, my dad has one. Me, I would rather have a Porsche turbo....

No reason not to have both ....and rental property :-)

Gabriel Suarez
05-07-2018, 11:42 AM
No reason not to have both ....and rental property :-)

And seven figure portfolio
Full passport
Low bodyfat
And the vocabulary of a PHD.

Gunstore Commando
05-07-2018, 01:02 PM
I found the story about Rolex selling watches for cheap to WWII POW's to be absolutely jaw dropping.

None of the guys who worked at Rolex at that time are still on the job, of course, but it is often the case that strong companies have cultures that, for good or for ill, transcend generations.

45Smashemflat
05-07-2018, 08:02 PM
Why a Rolex? May as well say why a Rolls. It's about reputation, quality, and real value. Yes, a Timex can keep time, but can you sell it for what you paid for it 10 years later? The Seecamps, Rolex, Rolls, and other similar artifacts are not living on a false reputation. It's real, they have earned it, their price reflects it, their resale value reinforces it. The the almost 40 year old Date-Just on my wrist is not for sale at any price, it was Dad's. The Randall purchased after Q, nope, not for sale either, but I know what it's worth...

henri
05-08-2018, 08:18 AM
I'm not a watch maven, so forgive me, but is this recognized as fact and true as to Rolex origin, or just a popular theory?

I don't believe Hans Wildorf, the German national who lived in London and was the founder of Rolex in 1905 was a Calvinist. He subsequently moved his watchmaking operation to Switzerland. I don't know where you obtained your information from.
I know, I digress from the original intent of the OP.

henri
05-08-2018, 08:22 AM
Along with the Rolex, a stylish car, the proper dress and so on, is the golf course. There are exceptions, but many executive types and wannabees do a lot of their work at the 'right' club house and when they are actually golfing. To be good at golf or even to play regularly consumes a lot of time and suspect not too many here play that game seriously. It is really a game of trivialities, but it is where the big business deals often get set up.

The Rolex submariner from what I just googled is $8,550 and $7,500. If you want it just for the joy of ownership and have the money then one should buy one.

"It's all relative" Someone looks at a Submariner and says its only $8000, not bad, I'll take it. Others may say OMG $8k for a watch! Perspective and if $8k is a days pay or a months pay.

Gabriel Suarez
05-08-2018, 08:47 AM
So...it is more desirable that $8K be a day's pay or a month's pay? I think that answer will make the difference...not whether you currently have it, but if you would want it.

callmebubba
05-08-2018, 01:36 PM
So...it is more desirable that $8K be a day's pay or a month's pay? I think that answer will make the difference...not whether you currently have it, but if you would want it.
I’m no expert, but in my experience those who say “I wouldn’t want that/ wouldn’t know what to do with that.” Generally actually mean “I wouldn’t want to do the work required to make that.”

Papa
05-08-2018, 02:00 PM
Just realized that our 20th anniversary occurs about a month before my planned retirement date.

I think a Rolex would look a lot better on the XO than on me....

Jon Payne
05-08-2018, 03:33 PM
Just realized that our 20th anniversary occurs about a month before my planned retirement date.

I think a Rolex would look a lot better on the XO than on me....

I bought my bride one for Xmas. Herís is nicer than mine, but I have an Omega and Rolex so Iím not bitching.


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Ryan Taylor
05-08-2018, 06:20 PM
How old were yall when you bought your first 'fancy dont need it but gotta have it' item?

Im only 28, more arrogant than wise, but grew up poor and so I am 'self made', for better or worse. As such, always had a weird pride in not needing fancy things. Probably more of a chip on my shoulder than anything.

Market Im trying to get into needs a professional who looks more like Daniel Craig as 007, rather than Kevin Costner in open range.

Mike OTDP
05-08-2018, 06:36 PM
How old were yall when you bought your first 'fancy dont need it but gotta have it' item?
Other than a gun? 38. The IWC Fliegerchronograph I mentioned previously.

Mike Heckathorn
05-08-2018, 07:19 PM
How old were yall when you bought your first 'fancy dont need it but gotta have it' item?

Im only 28, more arrogant than wise, but grew up poor and so I am 'self made', for better or worse. As such, always had a weird pride in not needing fancy things. Probably more of a chip on my shoulder than anything.

Market Im trying to get into needs a professional who looks more like Daniel Craig as 007, rather than Kevin Costner in open range.

31. New Mustang GT 2 weeks ago. Absolutely no need for it. But, it is a load of fun.


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45Smashemflat
05-08-2018, 08:48 PM
Mid 40's when I first put ivory on a firearm....

UNO
05-09-2018, 03:54 AM
How old were yall when you bought your first 'fancy dont need it but gotta have it' item?

Im only 28, more arrogant than wise, but grew up poor and so I am 'self made', for better or worse. As such, always had a weird pride in not needing fancy things. Probably more of a chip on my shoulder than anything.

Market Im trying to get into needs a professional who looks more like Daniel Craig as 007, rather than Kevin Costner in open range.

25, C6 Z06 and factory tour experience and Spring Mountain Motorsports 2 day training.

EDELWEISS
05-09-2018, 05:28 AM
I bought my Rolex in Saudi, when I was promoted to Team Leader of the Commanding General's CID protection detail. It was one of the best things I ever did for myself. I didn't need it, I had a good Seiko and a back up Hamilton with me. I wanted a Submariner; but ended up with a GMT Master; it was and remains a great purchase and life choice.

Catalina
05-14-2018, 10:25 AM
Marketing alone does not explain how Rolex is listed as one of the world's most reputable companies.

I think it does Jon. Most, if not all of the reasons cited derive from impressions, feelings, emotions and other psychological reasons for defining a luxury good as something desirable or worthy of investment. Freud, Freud, and Bernays spelled out how to make this happen. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self

Gun manufacturers do it all the time; Rolex is super successful at it. I relish in it - I buy gold colored Glock slides from SI, and drive an Audi, and spend way too much on watches.

"We must shift America from a needs- to a desires-culture. People must be trained to desire, to want new things, even before the old have been entirely consumed. [...] Man's desires must overshadow his needs."

Gabriel Suarez
05-14-2018, 10:42 AM
I think it does Jon. Most, if not all of the reasons cited derive from impressions, feelings, emotions and other psychological reasons for defining a luxury good as something desirable or worthy of investment. Freud, Freud, and Bernays spelled out how to make this happen. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self)

Gun manufacturers do it all the time; Rolex is super successful at it. I relish in it - I buy gold colored Glock slides from SI, and drive an Audi, and spend way too much on watches.

"We must shift America from a needs- to a desires-culture. People must be trained to desire, to want new things, even before the old have been entirely consumed. [...] Man's desires must overshadow his needs."

A life based on needs is a tired, hungry, and miserable life spent hiding from the elements, and looking for food and a place to put your penis.

A life based on wants is far different, far more interesting and rewarding, not to mention, enjoyable.

UNO
05-18-2018, 02:07 AM
A life based on needs is a tired, hungry, and miserable life spent hiding from the elements, and looking for food and a place to put your penis.

A life based on wants is far different, far more interesting and rewarding, not to mention, enjoyable.

Only if you meet your needs first. I know people drowning in debt and hating the things they cherished because of it. That's America's problem. People feel entitled to their life of wants without first managing their life of needs.