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View Full Version : STAKEOUT AT 100 YARDS



Gabriel Suarez
04-11-2018, 08:56 AM
https://vimeo.com/264271582

Greg Nichols
04-11-2018, 09:32 AM
wait wait wait.......... I thought this was only good for hip fire mag dumps at 15 yards?

Brent Yamamoto
04-11-2018, 09:41 AM
It never would have occurred to me to shoot the Stakeout from Creedmore position...thanks to ChrisNobody for the inspiration!

Of course Creedmore really isn't necessary...since a few of us were taking 100 yard shots standing.

I remember last year's shotgun class taking shots with my Stakeout at 50. I didn't have an RMR at the time, and with bead sights it was challenging. With rifle sights and/or an RMR, 100 yards is easy.

Proof once again that good equipment is necessary to wring the most out of your skill.

Greg Nichols
04-11-2018, 10:07 AM
Proof once again that good equipment is necessary to wring the most out of your skill.

It always bugs me when people say "It's the Indian not the arrow". It does have some truth to it but far too often it's used as a cop our for having a shitty arrow or only being willing to spend money on multiple shitty arrows.

Brent Yamamoto
04-11-2018, 10:21 AM
Yeah, that Indian phrase is problematic.

I agree that the Indian is more important but the better arrow will always give the Indian an edge.

LawDog
04-11-2018, 10:31 AM
I'm going to resist the urge to get one of these for just a little bit longer, but you guys are wearing me down.

How much is the performance gap between rifle sights and an RMR? I realize this is sort of an intangible thing to measure. Based on your subjective perception, how much difference is there in regard to accuracy at range?

Is there any way to get a co-witness with irons, or are you choosing to have only an RMR? As rugged as the RMR may be, in my estimation it still falls short of being a 100% solution. I like having BUIS. I'm willing to spend the money for an RMR, but if the RMR eliminates the ability to use irons then I'm not sure that I would choose to install one. Can I have both?

Gabriel Suarez
04-11-2018, 10:33 AM
Rifle sights are better than bead AND ghost rings. Ghost rings have no place on a Stakeout.

An RMR does the same as on a pistol. It improves your ability to hit.

Our mount allows for cowitness with the rifle sights.

Brent Yamamoto
04-11-2018, 10:34 AM
I'm going to resist the urge to get one of these for just a little bit longer, but you guys are wearing me down.

How much is the performance gap between rifle sights and an RMR? I realize this is sort of an intangible thing to measure. Based on your subjective perception, how much difference is there in regard to accuracy at range?

Is there any way to get a co-witness with irons, or are you choosing to have only an RMR? As rugged as the RMR may be, in my estimation it still falls short of being a 100% solution. I like having BUIS. I'm willing to spend the money for an RMR, but if the RMR eliminates the ability to use irons then I'm not sure that I would choose to install one. Can I have both?


they cowitness.

If it tells you anything, I left my barrel with Josh to upgrade...I'm convinced 100% on the rifle sights in combination with the RMR. It is the best solution for this platform, period. Full stop.

JonathanNobody
04-11-2018, 12:49 PM
they cowitness.

If it tells you anything, I left my barrel with Josh to upgrade...I'm convinced 100% on the rifle sights in combination with the RMR. It is the best solution for this platform, period. Full stop.

I think a number of us left shotguns behind after the course so we could put the lessons learned to good use.

Jon Payne
04-11-2018, 01:58 PM
I think a number of us left shotguns behind after the course so we could put the lessons learned to good use.

Thatís a true testament!


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Dorkface
04-11-2018, 02:04 PM
One thing i had been wondering ever since I got my Tac 14 was what would be possible if there was a way to put a rear sight on it. At the time I had no idea that there were barrels that had rifle sights on them. In the same way that many of us have pushed glocks out to a couple hundred yards I was curious what the outer limit was. My intention was to push things and find out but it looks like you guys got there first. My wife decided she wanted a handgun like my rmr 19 so funds got diverted lol. I know what a future SI order will be now lol.

Johnny C!
04-11-2018, 02:30 PM
The Creedmore stance is an awesome
addition to the more conventional ones,
so thanks for letting us add that to our
quivers, but using the sling as Brent
shows, takes it up another notch or 2.

And as always, many thanks to Gabe
and his team for letting me tag along.

John

gssc
04-11-2018, 02:51 PM
It always bugs me when people say "It's the Indian not the arrow". It does have some truth to it but far too often it's used as a cop our for having a shitty arrow or only being willing to spend money on multiple shitty arrows.

I think of the quality of the "Indian" is the equation as a multiplication where it equals zero if you have a bad Indian.
Bad Indian X Bad arrow = 0
Bad Indian X Good arrow = 0
Good Indian X Bad Arrow = 50%
Good Indian X Good Arrow = 100%

Brent Yamamoto
04-11-2018, 02:57 PM
I have to credit ChrisNobody with the idea of using the sling in Creedmore. I watched him do it and make the hit, so I had to try my self.

However, I did use the sling for standing shooting at different distances out to 100. The sling is unnecessary for general shooting, but for that one long-distance slug shot, yes it has some benefit.

I shot this video over a year ago, experimenting with the sling after Greg had raised the idea:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLC3yXKhVRs&t=2s

That was done dry in my dojo and I hadn't had the opportunity to test it live fire yet. I also hadn't had the Stakeout very long. When I did get to test it, I found that wrapping it around my arm didn't work well (it unwraps from your arm immediately on recoil, negating any benefit). But just creating tension around the back of the neck, as demonstrated below, works pretty well. People were able to make the shot without the sling, but I do think it offers a little benefit at distance.

55442

Johnny C!
04-11-2018, 05:35 PM
I'll try the Creedmore tomorrow, but with
the sling being used, this accomplishes at
least 3 important aspects that I see.

1) It will create stability, as Brent mentions
above, like the sling tension technique used
with the MP5k's, from way back then.

2) It allows the shooter to adjust & hold the
muzzle end to get it to the proper elevation,
or close enough to adjust the rear sight for
the shot. If it sinks to low, regroup with the
sling & go again. If it's to high initially, add
some slack to allow it slide down, then add
in some tension for better stability.

3) With the sling in that config, it will give the
shooter a reasonable level of assurance that
the muzzle is past the meat of their calf, even
when a hasty set up is req'd.

Great lessons here.

Gabriel Suarez
04-11-2018, 05:57 PM
It is far easier to become a good indian if you start the skill development with a good arrow...not a shitty arrow.

AFSOCCRNA
04-11-2018, 06:42 PM
Thatís a true testament!


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Yep. I'm going to be in Prescott this fall for FoF and I plan to leave my Stakeout barrel for an addition of iron sites and a G17 for the Guttersnipe treatment. You're going to die anyway, may as well die surrounded by the best!

chad newton
04-11-2018, 07:54 PM
Pretty sweet, I really like them. Tons of potential and capability.

chad newton
04-11-2018, 07:56 PM
Ok, why did shotguns lose noteriety as a dangerous weapon? Trends in whatís cool only?

Greg Nichols
04-11-2018, 08:43 PM
Ok, why did shotguns lose noteriety as a dangerous weapon? Trends in what’s cool only?

There are a number of reasons. When I first came here in 09' I was scoffed at for suggesting that shotguns fit in certain dynamics, now 9 ish years later we are reinvestigating the actual, practical application of the system. I think it is really based on an established understanding of the platform that didn't have the deep dive and testing of new though incremental advancement of the platform. Legitimately rifle sights and red dots aren't revolutionary but they have been ignored on what is commonly considered an antiquated and subpar weapon system. What they needed was testing, context, and evaluation from a tactical perspective. I even fell into this pit but have now dug my way out

Popshot
04-12-2018, 06:13 PM
When I got a Stakeout a few months ago, I considered the bead sight perfectly suited to this weapon's mission (close range). I have realized that I often aim high, but assumed increased upper body strength and additional practice would remedy this problem.

During class this weekend in Prescott, I readily got hits with slugs at 75 and 100 yards with my ghost ring sighted Raider 870. When changing to the Stakeout, I could not get slug hits at 75 yards. The bead doesn't index on target, rather it seems to float around. I watched classmates and instructors make repeated hits with both plain Tac-14 and Stakeout equipped with rifle sights. I tried out this sight arrangement - CLICK! The lights came on! Even without a stock, my eye easily found the sight picture. Then trying a Stakeout with both the rifle sights and RMR, well, it reminds me of using my RMR pistol, which means I can get consistent target acquisition with this equipment combination.

Leaving my Stakeout behind to get upgraded with both rifle sights and RMR mount was the easy choice. Now, while I wait for my new and improved Stakeout, I need to improve my upper body and grip strength so I can wield this weapon.

Jon Payne
04-12-2018, 07:21 PM
When I got a Stakeout a few months ago, I considered the bead sight perfectly suited to this weapon's mission (close range). I have realized that I often aim high, but assumed increased upper body strength and additional practice would remedy this problem.

During class this weekend in Prescott, I readily got hits with slugs at 75 and 100 yards with my ghost ring sighted Raider 870. When changing to the Stakeout, I could not get slug hits at 75 yards. The bead doesn't index on target, rather it seems to float around. I watched classmates and instructors make repeated hits with both plain Tac-14 and Stakeout equipped with rifle sights. I tried out this sight arrangement - CLICK! The lights came on! Even without a stock, my eye easily found the sight picture. Then trying a Stakeout with both the rifle sights and RMR, well, it reminds me of using my RMR pistol, which means I can get consistent target acquisition with this equipment combination.

Leaving my Stakeout behind to get upgraded with both rifle sights and RMR mount was the easy choice. Now, while I wait for my new and improved Stakeout, I need to improve my upper body and grip strength so I can wield this weapon.

I have no doubt you will do just that!


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Popshot
04-12-2018, 07:57 PM
Beginning tomorrow, after washing the dead Arizona and New Mexico bugs off the truck.