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JonathanNobody
02-08-2018, 06:22 PM
I was on the weapon's range when I read the comment about police having extra rights. We'd just been briefed the Internal Affairs was now going to investigation accidental, unintentional and negligent weapon discharges that occur in the field, and even in the range's training environment. We just learned those who had difficulty passing qualification would have their POST certificates submitted for suspension as well. While I don't necessarily have a problem with certain aspects of these new actions it certainly hasn't left me feeling police have extra rights. Actually, I think police are predisposed to being guilty until proven innocent by their agency and especially by the public.. So, let's look at the reality of modern day policing. If you were an officer in the past - great - but times have changed and good for you, but times have changed. That was probably true when you looked back at the previous generations of police when you were a boot as well. If you were military police - great - but times have changed as well. Not to diminish experience, but if you aren't doing it now - you simply aren't doing it now.

The modern day police officer is in a unique position. Here is a good summation of the situation using bullet points for simplicity:

The public hates him - he's responsible for holding them accountable and people don't generally appreciate that.
His agency hates him - he's a human that may do his best but he may also make mistakes. Those mistakes create liability, sway public opinion, and make office-dwelling administration types afraid.
His family hates him - he's always gone, has inconvenient shifts, gets to deal with death, destruction, blood, guts, torn child vaginas and rectums, heads in buckets, self-imporant wealth persons and then he must turn all this off and become the perfect husband, father, brother, etc. the moment he gets home. Tomorrow is more of the same.
He hates himself - he joined the agency to fight crime, kill bad guys, protect citizens and now has to dodge internal affairs, internal oversight, spreadsheet-producing-office-dwellers telling him he's a racist and he wonders where he went wrong. He knows he will never be rich, but will makes ends meet with off-duty and overtime only.



Is this overly dramatic - sort of yes, maybe and sometimes...but there it is. So far I don't see the extra rights here.

Why do modern day police do what they do? Here's a partial list, same bullet-points for simplicity:

Despite being hated by everyone and everything, he knows he stands for right and that's never wrong.
Despite having a target on his back from the public and his own agency, he knows if he doesn't do the job right then, right where he's at, it may not be done and it needs to be done.
Despite all the family issues the career produces, he knows it is a honorable, worthy career he can be proud of. The family knows this too, but has to be willing to sacrifice to support him - this is not always the case.
At the end of his life, he can be proud of what he did, who he helped, who he killed, who he saved, and who he bled with. He can be proud of his work ethic and product.
Despite the bullshit of the job, he knows actually makes a difference. Yes, capitalists make money. Yes, socialists (true sense) push social goals forward, but the law enforcement officer - he makes real, honest, life and death decision-making choices that affect lives. If he weren't there it wouldn't be done.



So, it isn't about free coffee, a cool uniform or extra rights. The modern day law enforcement officer is about making an impossible situation seem merely difficult in the fast of odds stacked against him by the public, his agency and his personal life. Why does he persevere? Simple - he makes a true positive difference the rich can't purchased, the intellectual, office-bound manager can't fathom and the self-centered public can't imagine. When we die, I do not believe God will say, "How much money did you earn?" or "How large of a house did you have, or what sort of car did you drive?" I think he'll be interested in old fashion blood, sweat and tears kill-the-evil-person/save-the-good-person/help-those-who-couldn't-do-if-for-themselves law enforcement officer. Yes, money is nice...very nice. When I look at who I've put in prison, the grave or who's alive...well, that's why I do the job. There's a cost to it - a heavy cost to be sure, but if it were easy everyone would be doing it.

Extra rights? Haven't seen those yet.

For what it's worth.

J

I will say this. The LEO's lot may suck at times - rock at others - but if you can handle the shit, gore and sadness, stick up for the righteous and weak, then grab a vest, rifle and I'll see you at shift briefing. This is why we do what we do.

Jon Payne
02-08-2018, 06:28 PM
Best damn description I've ever read. Thank you very much Jonathan, I owe you one of many drinks my friend.

xena
02-08-2018, 06:37 PM
Well said, thank you!

paknheat
02-08-2018, 07:01 PM
Very well said sir, thanx for putting that into words for us all to see , and....

Thanx for what you do.[emoji106]


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Country Boy
02-08-2018, 07:34 PM
That was wonderful. Thank you for sharing your perspective, sir.

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Gabriel Suarez
02-08-2018, 07:35 PM
I can bring my own rifle and still have my armor. Make the call and I will be there standing next to you any time any place...and at no charge.

JonathanNobody
02-08-2018, 07:47 PM
I can bring my own rifle and still have my armor. Make the call and I will be there standing next to you any time any place...and at no charge.

I believe you would. I've seen your generosity to LEOs reflected in the scholarship program and equipment suddenly appearing when needed in the right hands. You may say you're a capitalist, and yes....money is what keeps SI going, but I know you support law enforcement for very personal reasons and recognize sacrifices made.

There are LEOs in the upcoming classes that will take skills downrange that wouldn't be there otherwise.

Papa
02-08-2018, 08:20 PM
Using the talents God gave us and the skills we learned,

we make order out of Chaos.

It isn't pretty. But it's the life we chose.

It's what we do.

Thanks for putting it in perspective.

Ted Demosthenes
02-08-2018, 09:34 PM
Well written Jon. This is something we can share with those that need perspective or education; a rather large group these days unfortunately.

From me and my family, our sincere but truly inadequate thanks to all of you who are doing, and have done, The Job.

Clan Demosthenes

Dfkeating
02-09-2018, 05:33 AM
VERY well done brother! Thanks for your service. I sincerely appreciate having you out there! Be safe.

David Bowman
02-09-2018, 06:41 AM
Keep going brother....

Given that the job is tough enough; it would be make the sunrise a bit sweeter if the admin types could take a break from their life of micromanaging and armchair quarterbacking the dangerous decisions made in milliseconds by dangerous men.

That would reduce about 62 percent of the stress in the workday.

gssc
02-09-2018, 08:37 AM
Thank you for the post. I took it to heart. It is indeed a special warrior who stand with that many interests firing arrows into their back yet does the job.


I've made it a habit to pay for LEOs food if I can. I always do it without them knowing. At a restaurant, I just ask to cover their check if it works out that I'm leaving. In a drive through if a marked unit is behind me I cover their food and drive away.

cwood
02-09-2018, 10:31 AM
Very well stated.

m48shooter
02-09-2018, 10:35 AM
S13A reporting for duty sir.

I'll need a local radio, a squad and a map, but I'm in.

One of these days the tribe will call... and woe to the tangos that stand before us.

Greg Nichols
02-09-2018, 10:54 AM
The same reasons and consequences I experienced for my service which I would have been retireing from had my body not failed me. It's a calling, tride and true. Celebrate being an outlier in a world who who has lost its value of real warriors.

Surreal001
02-09-2018, 10:56 AM
Great post. You make a very clear case that you are one of the good ones, not one who claims extra rights or preferential treatment. I'm proud to associate with you and others like you here within the tribe. It's truly a tough thankless job. You're right about what God will be concerned with when you die. Keep fighting the good fight brother, and remember that we do really appreciate your work, even if we don't say it often enough.

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henri
02-09-2018, 11:39 AM
Not a LEO, but completely agree with your commentary. My interactions with LE, perhaps 2 or 3, always cordial, and only having to do with 'alleged excessive speed' :-)

Custom II
02-09-2018, 02:51 PM
Well said, Jonathan. LE *is* a calling... that’s the only way we can do what we do. I’m fortunate to work for an agency that treats me well.


If you’re ever in Idaho, first round is on me.


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mfox497
02-09-2018, 05:29 PM
Good job brother. Very much describes my experience.

Joatmon
02-10-2018, 06:45 AM
+1 to everything said above. Former military and civilian LEO.

EDELWEISS
02-10-2018, 07:03 AM
One thing that would improve modern policing, would be to require all admin officers to work the road (really work the road) at least one day a month. If every Precinct Captain had to talk about their arrest at the monthly COMSTAT meeting, they might have a better understanding of the for shit policies they required. It certainly would show the troops they could still strap on a gun belt and log on to the car computer.

A captain that got his white shirt dirty would be a badge of respect to the officers he sends out into the rain and snow, while he sits in his comfortable office. Just give me 1 day on the road for every 30 that he sits in an A/C office, and actually assigned to a busy post car, taking BS calls, following his orders, and using the gear that he feels is adequate. A captain that deals with "youre only doing this because I'm ______" and gets to dodge dirty Pampers being tossed from high rises, and too busy to get lunch, and waiting to use the only booking computer, and sitting on hospital details for an hour after his shift ended because the on coming shift was "too busy" to relieve him, and and and.

That's a guy Id respect. Hell Id respect a captain that showed up during blizzards with a stack of 7-11 pizzas, and a few 2lts of Coke, instead of trying to command from home. F me Id respect a captain that knew his guys' first names....

Custom II
02-10-2018, 04:24 PM
One thing that would improve modern policing, would be to require all admin officers to work the road (really work the road) at least one day a month. If every Precinct Captain had to talk about their arrest at the monthly COMSTAT meeting, they might have a better understanding of the for shit policies they required. It certainly would show the troops they could still strap on a gun belt and log on to the car computer.

A captain that got his white shirt dirty would be a badge of respect to the officers he sends out into the rain and snow, while he sits in his comfortable office. Just give me 1 day on the road for every 30 that he sits in an A/C office, and actually assigned to a busy post car, taking BS calls, following his orders, and using the gear that he feels is adequate. A captain that deals with "youre only doing this because I'm ______" and gets to dodge dirty Pampers being tossed from high rises, and too busy to get lunch, and waiting to use the only booking computer, and sitting on hospital details for an hour after his shift ended because the on coming shift was "too busy" to relieve him, and and and.

That's a guy Id respect. Hell Id respect a captain that showed up during blizzards with a stack of 7-11 pizzas, and a few 2lts of Coke, instead of trying to command from home. F me Id respect a captain that knew his guys' first names....

My captain knows all of us on a first name basis, and will hang out in the patrol office just to BS with the guys. He also makes a habit to show up to incidents and help however he can... he is well respected!

My agency has certain days of the year where everyone up to the colonel is in a car working. I think it does a lot for morale as well as admin relations.


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buckeyebreeze
02-11-2018, 06:43 PM
Well said! and I agree with Edel. Make 'em do a ride along.

RPG
02-11-2018, 07:15 PM
Jonathan-
Respectfully, not “everyone” hates you and your brothers and sisters of the badge. We respect you and pray for you but you rarely see or hear from us. We choose distance from disorder by living in better neighborhoods and respecting our fellow man. If you do have contact with us we are courteous and respectful. Unfortunately we are not the world where you are needed. You are needed in the other part of the world to keep the monsters at bay.
Tom Clancy wrote about warrior generals and politician generals. Clearly we have warrior cops and politician cops. What a safer place it would be if we only had the former. God bless and stay safe.


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wheel
02-13-2018, 02:48 AM
Hi Jonathan

Thank you for the well written post.

I started reading at my normal fast pace, really scanning your post. But what you had to say first made me pause and then forced me to read slower. Not wanting to miss any of the words or the meaning and message behind your post.

Although I live in South Africa your message, words, Warriortalk thinking & attitude helped to focus my thinking on real values that mean something, energizing me and giving me a much needed respite from problems and concerns I have to deal with right now on a daily basis.

Thanks again.

Cheers
Elfie

JonathanNobody
02-13-2018, 09:52 AM
Elfie,

I'm glad we can learn from each other. It has taken me a long time and a lot of effort chasing things that I thought were important at the time to learn what's truly important for me. I, and ChrisNobody, chased education as far at it would go (undergrad, grad, post-grad from him, etc..) and chased careers into senior management. However, all that being said, what is important for me is knowing I make a difference in the job I do. These days, with all the negatives facing law enforcement, we're faced wondering why we do the job. When I see someone get a service they would not otherwise receive, in a method otherwise unobtainable, with an outcome otherwise expected, I know the squad is on the right track. At the end, we have to stand before the Man and be judged. What we do, what we say, what we produce for others matters. The "I, Me, Mine" is really a "We, Us, Our" if we look at what's important.

Just my opinion.

J

ChrisNobody
02-13-2018, 11:32 AM
I haven’t responded here on purpose. I honestly get a bit teared up when I read what my brother wrote. How dare a department not value “leaders of men” who charge forward, right wrongs, protect the weak, and vanquish evil. How dare society not value warriors that allow us to pursue our own petty self-interests. It makes me angry and frustrates me to no end.

It is absolutely about leadership. Demand that I do something and you will get a loud “fuck you”, followed by openly aggressive resistance. However, have a real leader, one who recognizes his place at the front, ask me to go into certain death against insurmountable odds and I’m “all in”.

Jonathan, let me get my plate carrier and my rifle. Let me get a couple of extra bandoliers of ammo out of the back of the truck and I will follow you anywhere.

Brent Yamamoto
02-13-2018, 11:48 AM
It's all about leadership. I've been astonished at how much leadership matters, and how valuable gifted leaders are to an organization.

Yep.


How dare a department not value “leaders of men” who charge forward, right wrongs, protect the weak, and vanquish evil. How dare society not value warriors that allow us to pursue our own petty self-interests. It makes me angry and frustrates me to no end.

Sadly I think this is prevalent everywhere. I certainly see it in the corporate world. Of course the stakes are much, much lower*, but the principle is the same. Leaders who are dedicated, smart, who know when to lead and know when to listen to subordinates, who strive to do what's best rather than what's expedient for them...these leaders are exceedingly rare. (*It's always interesting to me how much my definition of "emergency" differs from others...no one is going to the hospital? Then it's not really an emergency.)

[/QUOTE]It is absolutely about leadership. Demand that I do something and you will get a loud “fuck you”, followed by openly aggressive resistance. However, have a real leader, one who recognizes his place at the front, ask me to go into certain death against insurmountable odds and I’m “all in”.
[/QUOTE]

Yes. Again, very rare. It's disappointing.

Greg Nichols
02-13-2018, 01:17 PM
yep, in a recent interview I was asked how I "cope with stress" and I was a bit thrown by the question. I stated that if I'm not getting shot at and my friends aren't dying around me it isn't stressful, but if they were asking about pressure I loved it because it kept me on my A game and made me more efficient. People in the corporate world have no idea what real stress is.

Papa
02-13-2018, 03:58 PM
It is absolutely about leadership. Demand that I do something and you will get a loud “fuck you”, followed by openly aggressive resistance. However, have a real leader, one who recognizes his place at the front, ask me to go into certain death against insurmountable odds and I’m “all in”.

Chris, you sound like what we call an "American," a rare, endangered and unappreciated species.

Blacked out
02-14-2018, 04:06 AM
Leadership is absolutely lacking in all areas of our society. In ‘03 in the middle of nowhere Iraqi desert my platoon made a home base of operations. This place had the luxery of rudimentary wooden latrines that we built. When the drums got full we burned the contents with diesel stirring away until the contents were no more. When it was my squads turn I was the first one out there to do it. Why is this sergeant out there doing it before his troops and getting the strangest looks from the other NCOs and troops (except for top he knew what I was doing)? Because I had never done it before and I was clear with my men that I would never ask them to do anything I had either never done before or willing to do myself. There are plenty of other stories like this but I think it’s a firm example. I was the only NCO that got the pleasure of burning crap. And yes it smelled as good as it sounds.

coastalcop
02-14-2018, 04:55 AM
Leadership is absolutely lacking in all areas of our society. In ‘03 in the middle of nowhere Iraqi desert my platoon made a home base of operations. This place had the luxery of rudimentary wooden latrines that we built. When the drums got full we burned the contents with diesel stirring away until the contents were no more. When it was my squads turn I was the first one out there to do it. Why is this sergeant out there doing it before his troops and getting the strangest looks from the other NCOs and troops (except for top he knew what I was doing)? Because I had never done it before and I was clear with my men that I would never ask them to do anything I had either never done before or willing to do myself. There are plenty of other stories like this but I think it’s a firm example. I was the only NCO that got the pleasure of burning crap. And yes it smelled as good as it sounds.

If youve never had a burning crap, I have to discount the military angle. Obviously you didnt eat enough MREs or Rip its ;) Just messing with you bro !

Papa
02-14-2018, 04:58 AM
When the drums got full we burned the contents with diesel stirring away until the contents were no more.

Now there's a metaphor for modern day civilian policing.

Ulf
02-14-2018, 07:16 AM
Jonathan,

Thank you for doing what you do! After 20 years of military service, I know I couldn't do what you do.

Real men and real leaders are the "one out of a hundred" who win the fight and bring the rest home.

My Grandfather used to say "Do right and fear no one". Counsel I've tried to live by my whole life.

My father used to say "Don't let the bastards grind you down". Easy to say and harder to do.

Doing what must be done is never easy but, we volunteer and take on the responsibilities of duty for our own reasons - not for awards or acclaim.

The people that matter know and respect you - that's what matters.

SARGeek
02-14-2018, 07:51 AM
Jonathan,

Many thanks for both a great write up and your service to all of us in protecting the society in which we ourselves enjoy so many freedoms.

I freely admit to having zero experience in doing what you do. For all my years in volunteer disaster relief, emergency comms, and Search & Rescue and a long career in IT dealing with other peoples whining, I doubt I could get through a week of it without decking someone who mouthed off at the wrong time. You and your brothers have my deepest respect and gratitude.

SARGeek

Cosantoir
02-16-2018, 12:44 AM
Leadership is absolutely lacking in all areas of our society. In ‘03 in the middle of nowhere Iraqi desert my platoon made a home base of operations. This place had the luxery of rudimentary wooden latrines that we built. When the drums got full we burned the contents with diesel stirring away until the contents were no more. When it was my squads turn I was the first one out there to do it. Why is this sergeant out there doing it before his troops and getting the strangest looks from the other NCOs and troops (except for top he knew what I was doing)? Because I had never done it before and I was clear with my men that I would never ask them to do anything I had either never done before or willing to do myself. There are plenty of other stories like this but I think it’s a firm example. I was the only NCO that got the pleasure of burning crap. And yes it smelled as good as it sounds.


An NCO's job should be --- we would like to pretend "used to be" but the good old days were nothing special for the most part --- "to be first up and last to bed, leading from the front, last in retreat" and so on. For far too many, stripes are just a sign of their pay grade and soldiering is just another job. The quickest simplest test of the quality of a unit I ever encountered was to watch where the sergeants were in the chow line.

noonesshowmonkey
02-16-2018, 12:57 AM
John, and everyone else on the board that serves or served in either capacity, thank you.

After three years on The Job in the on-again-off-again per capita murder capital of the United States, I am really running out of reasons to get up and go to work on the daily.

When I first set forth on this path, I remember the advice of nearly everyone around me, cops included: "don't do it!" There is no good way to quantify the cost of this job.

I've spent untold thousands moving to my AO for this job, kitting myself out with gear (they provide the badge, gun, taser, and radio), ammo for my own training (they provide essentially none), etc...
I've missed countless gatherings with the few friends that I've managed to make in spite of the godawful schedule that I am forced to keep.
I've banged and burned through more women than I can count, a few of whom said that they were "ok with [the job]," but eventually aren't (they never really were to begin with).
I've lost track of the number of conversations in which I am asked to answer for the entire Institution itself, and can sink several hours into a one-sided 'dialogue', long before these strangers ever learn a thing about me.
I've had multiple women get up from the bar within 30 seconds (OR LESS!) of finding out what I do for a living. Now, I just lie. My target demographic has always been over-educated feminists. It's my thing.
My first (and only!) citizen complaint was determined to be baseless but the bodyworn camera footage showed other violations that resulted in a missed promotion.
TWICE my fellow officers have filed complaints against me, and both times they were terminable charges. Both within 6 months of leaving the academy.
My personal fitness has suffered immensely due to my schedule, which has rendered my 'off' or 'personal' time into a place where I must exercise more discipline than my work time in order to hold fast to my goals.
My sleep schedule has been completely obliterated, and the physical/health effects are real, and cumulative.

We do a lot of cool shit. We chase bad guys. I've used my medical skills quite frequently on scenes due to how thinly stretched the entirety of our First Responder network is. I've made some neat arrests. It hasn't been all bad. But when you compare the Cool Shit to Bullshit Ratio, the odds suck.

Add to that the pay in the bottom brackets for the job nationally, which pay makes owning a home fiscally unrealistic at best and reckless at worst.

In short, The Job has destroyed my life. Which is to be expected. Joining an organization such as this, or the military, is a reforging of yourself into something different, into another version of you that is no longer the you that walked into that new life. But, the professional stagnation, cronyism, and the incredibly corrosive regulatory environment that we are forced to work in, combined the absurd stress of being so overworked and undermanned in places long forgotten by the American Dream, all for shithouse pay...

Brothers, it's a raw deal.

Papa
02-16-2018, 05:07 AM
I am really running out of reasons to get up and go to work on the daily.

Add to that the pay in the bottom brackets for the job nationally, which pay makes owning a home fiscally unrealistic at best and reckless at worst.

In short, The Job has destroyed my life. Which is to be expected. Joining an organization such as this, or the military, is a reforging of yourself into something different, into another version of you that is no longer the you that walked into that new life. But, the professional stagnation, cronyism, and the incredibly corrosive regulatory environment that we are forced to work in, combined the absurd stress of being so overworked and undermanned in places long forgotten by the American Dream, all for shithouse pay...

Brothers, it's a raw deal.

So, livin' the dream, huh?

You're absoeffinglutely right. But:

Don't despair. Recognize the evil around you, even in the Job, and reject it. Remain strong in the hard core of yourself and, with the help and grace of God, do this work to His glory.

This, too, will pass. The Job is a sine wave, adrenaline highs and black despair, and very infrequent joy as you cross the baseline, on the way up or down.

And you won't always be doing it. There is life after, just as there was before. That life, too, has sorrow, anger and disappointment, but nowhere near the same lethal degree.

coastalcop
02-16-2018, 05:16 AM
John, and everyone else on the board that serves or served in either capacity, thank you.

After

I've had multiple women get up from the bar within 30 seconds (OR LESS!) of finding out what I do for a living. Now, I just lie. My target demographic has always been over-educated feminists. It's my thing.

Brothers, it's a raw deal.

Professor of Applied Physics, or Lifestyle Consultant depending on the gal. Both are true enough, and the consultant angle can be played to her perceived values system, it’s in my sig line

noonesshowmonkey
02-19-2018, 10:31 AM
Professor of Applied Physics, or Lifestyle Consultant depending on the gal. Both are true enough, and the consultant angle can be played to her perceived values system, it’s in my sig line

:beer:

odin0311
02-20-2018, 09:58 AM
Greetings fellas, I've been in the business for 12 years (california and midwest). There are 3 main/perks/privileges/whatever we have over the general public: carry guns where they can't, grace received when pulled over, and guilty till proven innocent (I know, it's not a perk). Prior to departing the People's Republic forever after a decade on the streets I was angry and would have agreed with all the comments about people hating us. It was true admin was vicious and persecuted officers, the citizens were foul toward them as well. The pay was great but life sucked for me and the family. Moving to the heartland I've never been treated so well in my life. The public here is pro cop. Quality of life for the family is outstanding. You're right, this isn't a career field for everyone. If your AO sucks, MOVE! If your department isn't treating you right, MOVE! You have the ability to stay in your calling and be treated right away from unnecessary stressors of the job. You don't have be in that caustic environment.

coastalcop
02-20-2018, 02:10 PM
This came through on one of the youtube channels I subscribe to. Thought it might add a little something


https://youtu.be/M_wLPcH1_WA

Forklift
02-20-2018, 05:17 PM
Greetings fellas, I've been in the business for 12 years (california and midwest). There are 3 main/perks/privileges/whatever we have over the general public: carry guns where they can't, grace received when pulled over, and guilty till proven innocent (I know, it's not a perk). Prior to departing the People's Republic forever after a decade on the streets I was angry and would have agreed with all the comments about people hating us. It was true admin was vicious and persecuted officers, the citizens were foul toward them as well. The pay was great but life sucked for me and the family. Moving to the heartland I've never been treated so well in my life. The public here is pro cop. Quality of life for the family is outstanding. You're right, this isn't a career field for everyone. If your AO sucks, MOVE! If your department isn't treating you right, MOVE! You have the ability to stay in your calling and be treated right away from unnecessary stressors of the job. You don't have be in that caustic environment.

I have to agree, by and large people are pro cop, my sin is a newbie to the field, being in the 6th week of his break in.

Glad your happy here, hopefully it will stay that way, and welcome to the board.