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DogDoc
02-08-2018, 01:35 PM
With regards to the Tac-14...

Does the NFA have any specific wording defining concealment with regards to "other" wepons? I know that hiding an "other" weapons under your trench coat would constitute concealment and be illegal and that transporting one to the range in a gun case would not. I'm just wondering if there is any language in the act that clarifies the area between those two extremes.

Edited to clarify: The official designation of the Tac-14 is Firearm rather than Other. You can put either term on the FFL form when receiving one, hence my confusion.

Greg Nichols
02-08-2018, 01:38 PM
Does the NFA have any specific wording defining concealment with regards to "other" wepons? I know that hiding an "other" weapons under your trench coat would constitute concealment and be illegal and that transporting one to the range in a gun case would not. I'm just wondering if there is any language in the act that clarifies the area between those two extremes.

This wouldn't likely be regulated by the NFA. This would better be answered by state and local laws and the actual title of your CCW permit.

DogDoc
02-08-2018, 01:40 PM
Right, that's true for regular guns. But my understanding is that the Tac-14 and other "other" weapons aren't allowed to be concealed at all based on the federal designation of "Other".


Edited to clarify: The official designation of the Tac-14 is Firearm rather than Other. You can put either term on the FFL form when receiving one, hence my confusion.

Brent Yamamoto
02-08-2018, 01:46 PM
I know that the Stakeout/Tac-14 class of weapons are legally "firearms" (as opposed to pistol, rifle, shotgun) and they specifically are prohibited from being concealed.

I do not know how "AOWs" are treated as far as concealment. Stakeout shotguns are not AOWs.

DogDoc
02-08-2018, 01:51 PM
I know that the Stakeout/Tac-14 class of weapons are legally "firearms" (as opposed to pistol, rifle, shotgun) and they specifically are prohibited from being concealed.

I do not know how "AOWs" are treated as far as concealment. Stakeout shotguns are not AOWs.

Thanks Brent. I realize they aren't AOWs. I should have said Firearm was the designation rather than "Other".

So, that's still the question...what constitutes concealment for these firearms? I was wondering if the act itself gave any clarity on the question.

Greg Nichols
02-08-2018, 01:58 PM
concealment - Legal Definition. n. The act of hindering or preventing the discovery, knowledge, or sight of something. The hiding or placement of an object out of notice or sight.

All in all it's a pretty vague question so the answer is going to be the same and I really kinda hate these kind of questions. If you're asking if you can wear it under a coat then I'd say no. If you're asking if you can carry it in a case over your shoulder I would say yes. If you're asking if it is in your vehicle and not in public view does that count as concealed then I would ask why are you getting your vehicle searched by LEOs.

LawDog
02-08-2018, 02:07 PM
This wouldn't likely be regulated by the NFA. This would better be answered by state and local laws and the actual title of your CCW permit.This. The NFA is only relevant to the availability of the gun. Because it is not a concealable firearm, it does not come under the purview of the NFA. Once you have possession of the gun, the method in which you carry it will not violate the NFA. But you should consult your local laws because it is not a handgun. In some states, you can carry whatever you want. In other states, the CCW only extends to pistols and revolvers.

Gabriel Suarez
02-08-2018, 02:22 PM
I researched this extensively and was actually writing an article on this.

First point is this - second mouse gets the cheese. Remington and Mossberg brought the Tac-14 into the mainstream. We were already doing them in late 2016, but they helped make this mainstream.

Second Point - These weapons NEVER had a stock on them, always need to be at least 26.5" OAL, and are classed as OTHER FIREARM (not Any Other Weapon...ie. "AOW"). According to the rules, an AOW is less than 26.5 and thus can be concealed on the person. An OTHER FIREARM is over 26" long (if a brace is added, it must stay at 26.5" OAL...if the brace folds, it is measured extended) and thus cannot be concealed on the person.

Third point - the mouse and the cheese. Black Aces Tactical makes ridiculous weapons, but their letter opens the gate to a Pointman. Have a look at this weapon they sell.
54898

So if that is legal, and it is - then the Pointman as we built it is just as legal...and some other platforms we are working up will be in the same category

Weapons that never had stocks - sold as "OTHER FIREARMS, OTHERS, OR FIREARMS" - measured at over 26" long with braces extended - with a barrel of irrelevant length.

California, Maryland and other communist countries are excluded of course.

Gabriel Suarez
02-08-2018, 02:23 PM
As far as carrying it in a case...that is just being polite.

As always...if you act like an asshole, you will be wiped.

Gabriel Suarez
02-08-2018, 02:24 PM
https://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-ve6rdd5n1f/products/2175/images/7356/UKE-BAG-3__43285.1518046982.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

LEGAL

Gabriel Suarez
02-08-2018, 02:24 PM
https://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-ve6rdd5n1f/products/2175/images/7358/uke-case-4__90282.1518055581.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

LEGAL

Gabriel Suarez
02-08-2018, 02:25 PM
LEGALhttps://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-ve6rdd5n1f/products/2067/images/6479/SBT590-SBL-01-SB_1__13884.1512677266.1280.1280.jpg?c=2
LEGAL

https://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-ve6rdd5n1f/products/2105/images/7217/Shotgun_3__37621.1517261747.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

Gabriel Suarez
02-08-2018, 02:25 PM
https://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-ve6rdd5n1f/products/2105/images/7212/brace-blackaces-1__80366.1517254000.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

Gabriel Suarez
02-08-2018, 02:26 PM
https://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-ve6rdd5n1f/products/2105/images/7213/brace-blackaces-2__53940.1517254006.1280.1280.jpg?c=2
https://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-ve6rdd5n1f/products/2105/images/7214/brace-blackaces-3__78410.1517254011.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

L-E-G-A-L
.
.

Gabriel Suarez
02-08-2018, 02:27 PM
THIS ONE IS NFA REGULATED

https://www.impactguns.com/data/default/images/catalog/535/AOW%20REMINGTON.jpg

Gabriel Suarez
02-08-2018, 02:28 PM
THIS ONE IS NOT

https://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-ve6rdd5n1f/products/2105/images/7211/0128181424__78149.1517242826.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

Gabriel Suarez
02-08-2018, 02:31 PM
THIS ONE...WOULD NOT BE REGULATED BY NFA - MADE FROM A TAC-14, OAL 28", 9" BARREL

http://www.warriortalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54625&d=1516412383

DogDoc
02-08-2018, 02:38 PM
https://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-ve6rdd5n1f/products/2175/images/7356/UKE-BAG-3__43285.1518046982.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

LEGAL

Thanks much Gabe. This was my real question. I asked it here so as to not drag your Ukelele case thread into the weeds.


According to the rules, an AOW is less than 26.5 and thus can be concealed on the person.
Bold & Italics added by DogDoc.

This seems to be the key point. Thanks for the clarification.

DogDoc
02-08-2018, 02:44 PM
Just ordered two of them. One for the Alaskan & PointMan to share...and one for my ukulele. More and more, OST becomes a one-stop shop for me. LOL

Doc

EDELWEISS
02-09-2018, 05:44 AM
As far as carrying it in a case...that is just being polite. ....

Just being polite--PRICELESS.

Jollyroger0331
02-09-2018, 10:43 AM
If you just toss in a pair of ear pro and a target as far as anyone else knows you're just going to the range.