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View Full Version : I like this idea. B&T USW-320



callmebubba
02-03-2018, 07:23 AM
It’s obvious that they chose the 320 because the frame is just a “part” and there are significantly less hoops to jump through. That said, if someone made an arm brace model for a Glock; I’d gladly do the 4473 to pick it up.

54820

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/02/01/usw-320/

coastalcop
02-03-2018, 07:46 AM
That’s interesting. Maybe a tail hook or factory fitted shockwave , or even a strap hole on the b&t design to make it a “brace” ( given all the variations out there it seems what you call it is more important than shape to the ATF right now)

EDELWEISS
02-03-2018, 08:11 AM
I'm pretty sure theres a strap loop on the "pistol" version

Gabriel Suarez
02-03-2018, 09:01 AM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/124/041/496.jpg

Hammer27
02-03-2018, 01:00 PM
The Suarez Glock PDW is better in all aspects.

PastorM
02-03-2018, 01:28 PM
The Suarez Glock PDW is better in all aspects.

Unless you've got an SI RMR'ed P320 hanging around. :cool:

I could see a modification of this that would work well for me. A folding stock-like brace that is both 1) more or less permanently attached to the grip module, and 2) much more compact than the Endo-Shockwave combination (even with a hinge), might actually be something that I would figure out a way to carry with me in daily life.

callmebubba
02-03-2018, 02:35 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/124/041/496.jpg

With your stance that the PDW kit is a best utilized with a dedicated frame and slide I thought this would fit that idea rather well.

I'm not rushing out to buy a 320 and SBR it so I can have one of these. But if they made a Glock frame with a similarly low profile arm brace, they would certainly have my business.

JDoza
02-03-2018, 05:19 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/124/041/496.jpg

LOL... that’s what I thought!


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jlwilliams
02-04-2018, 03:19 PM
It's a cool gun. I think that trying to turn it into another workaround by making a "brace" version is kind of counter productive.

This product is available for the SIG 320. It turns it into a SBR, which needs a stamp. It's either worth a stamp or it isn't.

coastalcop
02-05-2018, 04:53 AM
It's a cool gun. I think that trying to turn it into another workaround by making a "brace" version is kind of counter productive.

This product is available for the SIG 320. It turns it into a SBR, which needs a stamp. It's either worth a stamp or it isn't.



Actually I was looking at it exactly as it is shown.... but with a slot for a strap and then call it a brace not a stock. With all the other approved designs out there it seems the ATF is more concerned about what you call it rather than the design itself (also perhaps lowering the workload for the NFA staff by reducing the number of applications. If there isnt serious money to follow, then follow who has to do less work as a result of something)

BKern
02-05-2018, 10:31 AM
IF, I was invested in the SIG 320 platform and IF, this was price comparable to the PDW kit, and IF it had a strut that was a brace instead of a stock, I might find it sort of attractive.

But since none of those if are met here, meh.

callmebubba
02-05-2018, 01:17 PM
IF, I was invested in the SIG 320 platform and IF, this was price comparable to the PDW kit, and IF it had a strut that was a brace instead of a stock, I might find it sort of attractive.

But since none of those if are met here, meh.

Exactly what I meant to convey in the OP. If it had a functional thumb safety that still worked with aftermarket Glock triggers it would be even better.

Hammer27
02-05-2018, 01:21 PM
The origin and application for these B&T USW's is for police officers to carry this in lieu of a pistol. It is still intended to be carried in an overt holster on the belt or thigh but it will give the user a greater chance of success than a stock-less pistol while not being as cumbersome as a rifle, SMG, PDW etc. In my mind its halfway between an MP7 and a handgun.

Aside from the inherent SIG issues...

It cannot be concealed on the body while the Suarez Glock PDW can.
If I need to carry it around in a case I may as well have either a Glock PDW that has a better stock/brace.
It has less ballistic benefit than other weapon systems that have the same requirement (that being it must be cased or concealed under heavy clothing).
Why would I choose this over an MP7, MP5, or any of the small 300blk guns available that take the same effort to carry?
Can it work? Sure. But If I'm going to have to carry it around in a bag I may as well go a bit heavier/bigger and get some significant gains.

jlwilliams
02-05-2018, 01:35 PM
Having thought a little more about this and looking at the new stuff that came out at SHOT, I will throw more speculation on the web.

Looking at what is good and what isn't, cherry picking the desired features with no market analysis to weigh against cost so there is nothing but my random post to suggest there is a dollar to be made....... Would the aluminum Glock lowers that are being made be a viable platform to make a dedicated PDW out of? One shortcoming to the existing set up is that it doesn't fold into a holsterable package. This set up for the SIG hits that button. You can't really bolt a back end like that onto a polymer Glock, but you could (maybe could) attach something onto an aluminum lower.

Again, this is speculative and not a lame "make _____" request. I'm looking at what is, what isn't, and thinking about what might be. The stocked pistol is making a comeback. I like the cheap easy brace for the G17, but it is a workaround made for an existing handgun. What would a "clean sheet of paper" design look like?

Brent Yamamoto
02-05-2018, 03:21 PM
I ran across this in a shop just before Christmas. As always, I appreciate innovation but it depends 100% on the execution...innovation is only good if it solves a problem.

It's interesting but I was underwhelmed. To be fair there was no stock attached (unsurprisingly), and of course I couldn't shoot it. But I still think we are a ways from seeing PDWs on a duty belt, let alone for concealed carry. Yeah it's a small PDW but it's really big for a holster on your hip.

I will say the grip felt good. Trigger was nothing to write home about.
54843

It's got a big ass.
54844

The dot was interesting. Wish I could have compared this side by side with an RMR and taken pictures.
54845

Mike Heckathorn
02-05-2018, 03:59 PM
I ran across this in a shop just before Christmas. As always, I appreciate innovation but it depends 100% on the execution...innovation is only good if it solves a problem.

It's interesting but I was underwhelmed. To be fair there was no stock attached (unsurprisingly), and of course I couldn't shoot it. But I still think we are a ways from seeing PDWs on a duty belt, let alone for concealed carry. Yeah it's a small PDW but it's really big for a holster on your hip.

I will say the grip felt good. Trigger was nothing to write home about.
54843

It's got a big ass.
54844

The dot was interesting. Wish I could have compared this side by side with an RMR and taken pictures.
54845

The Aimpoint on it is the strangest part. The window is actually SMALLER than the RMR.


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Brent Yamamoto
02-05-2018, 04:17 PM
A smaller window, yet bigger overall. It left me scratching my head.

I am constantly perplexed by some of them are choices companies in this industry make.

callmebubba
02-05-2018, 04:32 PM
The origin and application for these B&T USW's is for police officers to carry this in lieu of a pistol. It is still intended to be carried in an overt holster on the belt or thigh but it will give the user a greater chance of success than a stock-less pistol while not being as cumbersome as a rifle, SMG, PDW etc. In my mind its halfway between an MP7 and a handgun.

Aside from the inherent SIG issues...

It cannot be concealed on the body while the Suarez Glock PDW can.
If I need to carry it around in a case I may as well have either a Glock PDW that has a better stock/brace.
It has less ballistic benefit than other weapon systems that have the same requirement (that being it must be cased or concealed under heavy clothing).
Why would I choose this over an MP7, MP5, or any of the small 300blk guns available that take the same effort to carry?
Can it work? Sure. But If I'm going to have to carry it around in a bag I may as well go a bit heavier/bigger and get some significant gains.

I agree with most of what you say, but don’t understand how you can carry a Suarez PDW on body easier than this? Disassembled sure. But we’ve talked that out and it’s akin to the rifle you go and get. I still see this as a compact bag weapon. Just an interesting innovation in the “stocked pistol PDW” realm.

Mike Heckathorn
02-05-2018, 04:37 PM
A smaller window, yet bigger overall. It left me scratching my head.

I am constantly perplexed by some of them are choices companies in this industry make.

It’s was most likely designed for a specific contract. They don’t sell just the optic. The B&T is the only time I’ve ever seen an Aimpoint Nano.


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EDELWEISS
02-05-2018, 04:40 PM
As Ive been reading this thread Ive noticed some really strange conclusions being posted, stuff like it cant be concealed but a Glock PDW can be and its only worth considering if its a SBR but not as a braced handgun, maybe some of it was lost in translation so Ill just ask if we can at least agree that continuing interest in handgun PDWs is a good thing???

Brent Yamamoto
02-05-2018, 04:40 PM
Even so.

Hammer27
02-05-2018, 05:00 PM
I agree with most of what you say, but don’t understand how you can carry a Suarez PDW on body easier than this? Disassembled sure. But we’ve talked that out and it’s akin to the rifle you go and get. I still see this as a compact bag weapon.

The disassembled part is the key. I can carry it like a normal pistol and leave the stock, extended mags etc behind if need be. I can't keep the B&T on me if it isn't in a bag or under some kind of outer jacket requiring a specialized sling.

callmebubba
02-05-2018, 05:53 PM
The disassembled part is the key. I can carry it like a normal pistol and leave the stock, extended mags etc behind if need be. I can't keep the B&T on me if it isn't in a bag or under some kind of outer jacket requiring a specialized sling.
I agree that that’s possible. But it’s been established here that beat practice is to have a dedicated frame that stays attached.

jlwilliams
02-06-2018, 05:08 AM
As Ive been reading this thread Ive noticed some really strange conclusions being posted, stuff like it cant be concealed but a Glock PDW can be and its only worth considering if its a SBR but not as a braced handgun, maybe some of it was lost in translation so Ill just ask if we can at least agree that continuing interest in handgun PDWs is a good thing???

Yes. Continued interest and development is a good thing. My bet is that we are within a decade of a really good solution coming to the market. Maybe within a few years.

EDELWEISS
02-06-2018, 05:18 AM
Yes. Continued interest and development is a good thing. My bet is that we are within a decade of a really good solution coming to the market. Maybe within a few years.

EXACTLY the key is starting from scratch. Designing a new PDW handgun that uses a Buffer Tube for anything other than a AR is just plain silly. Once a company realizes that same stock could be a brace with a little redesign and MARKETING, there will be some changes.

Bryan Bryan
05-24-2018, 07:12 AM
It's a cool gun. I think that trying to turn it into another workaround by making a "brace" version is kind of counter productive.

This product is available for the SIG 320. It turns it into a SBR, which needs a stamp. It's either worth a stamp or it isn't.

In addition to a stamp, the firearm needs NFA engraving. Since the firearm is the fire control unit (FCU), the FCU must be engraved. Engraving the FCU appears to be near impossible because there is no place to engrave it. This appears to make the product DOA. Please correct me if I am wrong. I really want to be wrong.

jlwilliams
05-26-2018, 10:50 AM
I think that you can put NFA engraving on a couple of places but I'm a little unsure about that.

Where there is a will and money there is a way. If you are serious enough to write a check, I'd start by finding a seller who has this in stock. If it's being sold in the US then someone somewhere has one in their shop and they may have one all set up in the store for show-and-tell. They will either sell you a SBR or sell you a stock and advise you what you need too do to get the stamp for your existing sear pack.

Gabriel Suarez
05-26-2018, 12:46 PM
So much f*cking eeeeefffffffort to avoid the Glock.

chad newton
05-26-2018, 02:00 PM
I don’t see what’s wrong with the one you put together. Plus all the work you have done to accurize the system, I can’t really see what advantage something else would have. Especially if you already bought a complete pistol and used it as an edc already. What else could someone need or want??? That is what sepperates me from most gun people, I’m not always looking for the next best thing other then what has been tried and tested on here. I would rather spend time training and getting more proficient with what I have, vs try to find the next best thing out there that will make me “better”. Not including the time allotted for creating and carrying out this business, stay physically active, make myself a better person, be a husband and father.

EDELWEISS
05-26-2018, 05:18 PM
So much f*cking eeeeefffffffort to avoid the Glock.

Gabe you've done amazing things with the Glock, and the Glock PDW in particular. No doubt youll continue to press the envelope, maybe one day even finding a better way to brace the Glock and move the PDW further along

Bryan Bryan
06-06-2018, 02:13 PM
It appears you may be able to engrave the slide as an alternative location, but it appears you need approval to do this.

Here is some info from the Texas Law Shield forum:

"In regards to other locations to be stamped: If there is not enough room, you may have to request a variance. As stated above, each maker of a firearm “must legibly identify it by engraving, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing on the firearm’s frame or receiver” the serial number and additional information listed above. A variance can be requested by submitting a letter to ATF’s Firearm Technology Branch. Please see § 7.4.4 of the NFA handbook, or call TLS and ask to speak to an attorney for details on the content of the letter. "