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DogDoc
01-22-2018, 08:58 AM
Is anybody making a 10mm happy stick?

Doc

Dry Fork
01-22-2018, 10:50 AM
Kriss makes a Joy stick conversion kit for the 45 magazine but the 45 and 10 mm mags are the same external size. Since the conversion unit uses the Glock magazine as the top unit, you hare using a 10 mm follower with a mag body for 10 mm for the feed lips so it should feed. I am converting one as we type. I will let you know.

ericb
01-22-2018, 02:07 PM
Arrendando +5 extensions on the 15 round G20 mags are best I found.

EDELWEISS
01-22-2018, 04:28 PM
Well I see I'm rubbing off on some of you. The lack of a 20+ round mag in 10mm is what has kept me from a 10mm AR based SMG. Ive heard pros and cons of the Kriss extension on 10mm mags-enough negative that has kept me from investigating the project. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let somebody find a solution....

Gabriel Suarez
01-22-2018, 04:48 PM
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let somebody find a solution....

Head shots with 9mm PDW and 33 rd sticks
More careful shots with hot 357 SIG PDW and 22 round sticks
A Stakeout with Slugs.

EDELWEISS
01-23-2018, 06:28 AM
Maybe 357SIG comes close to what I want from an Intermediate OR Magnum round, maybe...and as you point out there are 22round mags, which is certainly a plus--I use them in the G35 slide SI milled for my RMR with a 357SIG barrel. Making 200yard shots is boringly possible even for novice shooters. Still 10mm intrigues me, and apparently I'm not alone. A 10mm Glock PDW with the SI treatment, wouldn't be extreme in some situations. For now the +5 floorplates seem the best option; but that only increases the capacity to 20rnds--25 would be better for something like a PDW.

DogDoc
01-23-2018, 08:22 AM
My applications are more “outdoorsy” than 9mm or 357 Sig would be ideal for.
The Stakeout would be a good bear-defense gun but the 10mm PDW would also fill some hunting/varminting niches the Stakeout would stink at.

I wonder what the hang up is on 45 and 10mm happy stocks for mag manufacturers. Is it just supply and demand or is there something mechanically challenging about it?

Papa
01-23-2018, 08:35 AM
ETS emailed me in 2016 that they'd have extended .45 mags--early in 2017. Gotta be economics, with the industry in a downturn. No technical reasons I can think of, unless the grease gun v. Thompson mag issue arises.

Gabriel Suarez
01-23-2018, 08:41 AM
Is it just supply and demand or is there something mechanically challenging about it?

EVERYTHING is supply and demand. Gun people do not understand business...they think in terms of "I want (and have a price limit in mind)", or "this would be cool". Then when somebody actually builds a product based on those, without any market research, the first group won't buy it because it is "too expensive" and the second group won't buy it because they never would have in the first place. Then the poor manufacturer that spent his own coin on R&D and Proto and production must rely on the demographic of the market that actually buys stuff rather than just talking about what they would like to see. That demographic is extremely small for the 10mm and 45 world....extremely small.

Papa
01-23-2018, 09:09 AM
EVERYTHING is supply and demand. Gun people do not understand business...they think in terms of "I want (and have a price limit in mind)", or "this would be cool". Then when somebody actually builds a product based on those, without any market research, the first group won't buy it because it is "too expensive" and the second group won't buy it because they never would have in the first place. Then the poor manufacturer that spent his own coin on R&D and Proto and production must rely on the demographic of the market that actually buys stuff rather than just talking about what they would like to see. That demographic is extremely small for the 10mm and 45 world....extremely small.

Back in the day, we were hypercritical of Colt and Smith for not building what we wanted. This was before CNC and any of the computer aided machining techniques and before MIM. The aftermarket pistolsmiths flourished as a result.
Looking back, Colt and Smith were not far wrong--except for the refusal to even incrementally accommodate the market, or to update their machinery and manufacturing techniques until it was too late. Enter SIG, Beretta and Glock...

EDELWEISS
01-23-2018, 03:06 PM
My applications are more “outdoorsy” than 9mm or 357 Sig would be ideal for.
The Stakeout would be a good bear-defense gun but the 10mm PDW would also fill some hunting/varminting niches the Stakeout would stink at.

I wonder what the hang up is on 45 and 10mm happy stocks for mag manufacturers. Is it just supply and demand or is there something mechanically challenging about it?

YEP. I'm seeing a lot of guys buying Glock 20s and even 10mm 1911s for bear country. Its funny because around here they aren't gonna face anything bigger than a dog and a real dog at that; but even the ones that do actually venture into real bear territory will be Blackies not Grizzlies. For them their 9s with a couple of high caps would be enough. Out in Dog Docs area, I do see the virtue of 10mm. For Me, I just want a Magnum SMG. I guess my first step is a Glock PDW in 357SIG, maybe on a G35 just so I can feel like its something different...

endsoftheearth
05-08-2018, 05:48 PM
Is anybody making a 10mm happy stick?

Doc

Would this be legal on a braced pistol? If so, it may help feed my Glock 20 PDW. https://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-magazines-and-accessories/id-54/glock-magazine-frame-picatinny-attachment.html

EDELWEISS
05-09-2018, 05:37 AM
Would this be legal on a braced pistol? If so, it may help feed my Glock 20 PDW. https://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-magazines-and-accessories/id-54/glock-magazine-frame-picatinny-attachment.html

I don't think so; but I'm not sure many (including most cops) would know its not. The issue is it can be called a second handgrip on a firearm less than 26 inches OAL. Its even described in the add as a foregrip.

barnetmill
05-09-2018, 07:11 AM
I don't think so; but I'm not sure many (including most cops) would know its not. The issue is it can be called a second handgrip on a firearm less than 26 inches OAL. Its even described in the add as a foregrip.

Definitely not legal on a pistol if it can be construed as a fore grip that is in front of the trigger guard. If you think you will have enough time to empty the mag and reload a second mag, I suggest on a bear that you use that time to aim your rounds. But just as important it does sound like a range toy and not something for carrying in bear country. People too often count I think on a magazine change to compensate for poor marksmanship.

Brent Yamamoto
05-09-2018, 07:40 AM
One of the benefits of the Glock PDW is that the manual of arms is almost identical to the Glock you carry on your belt. Don’t buy into gimmicks like a magazine foregrip. Besides changing the manual of arms, it offers no benefit because the frame flexes too much.

If you want an extra magazine on board the PDW, attach it to the brace.

endsoftheearth
05-09-2018, 02:14 PM
Thank you guys for the advice. Coming right after the discussion of bears I should have said that I want it for Florida streets, in a chest rig or backpack.

Brent, I'm trying to track down a buttstock-mounted magazine carrier for my gen 2 Sub 2000 in .40, and will use your advice by trying to fit another on the G20's Shockwave brace. I just bought hinges and magazine L- coupler from SI, for the G20 and Sub 2000, respectively.

I carry the G20 in a skin-color Hill People Gear chest rig with 4 spare mags and light, with a trigger guard holster tied into the rig. In my hydration pack I carry the SI PDW kit. With the hinge I'll now be able to carry the complete G20 PDW in the hydration pack, if I wish.

My need is the same as OP, more mag capacity for the gen 3 G20, (or more mags on the gun). I don't have this problem with the Sub 2000, that I carry in the rear-most pocket of my Maxpedition sling pack. With the L-coupler two ETS 30 rounders will soon be in and attached.

I plan to carry the two guns together, as my G20 shoots .40 all day long. That gives me a pistol/PDW and a folding carbine. To keep the weight down I carry Magsafe SWAT ammo exclusively, from a stash of 900 rounds of .40, 10mm and 45 ACP.

i like the 40/10mm combo. I know it will only go 5 inches into a human chest but the energy dump will be quick and it weighs feathers. In limited testing, due to cost, 30 rounds in each weapon fed very well, and was combat accurate at the 50 yard indoor range.

The 45 Magsafe Defender did similarly in my FNX, and the primers of all the Magsafe ammo looked normal after firing. I carry up to 8 spare mags of the 10mm and similar 135 round loudout for the .40. carbine. This loadout would be impossible without such lightweight ammo, and is the reason that I'm into the highest capacity mags reasonable.

I already needed such an armament at least three times in my civvy life, and relied on bluff and God to survive. I'm trying to be more ready, so thank you all for your advice.

Coolhand77
06-23-2018, 12:33 PM
a little late to this party, but I figured I'd chime in since I recently went to a modified Glock 20 for daily carry. There are a few NEW items on the block for 10mm. First is the 10mm Kriss, which may get us some FACTORY 10mm happy sticks before long. Both the Kriss .45 and the Arredondo extensions needed a little fitting to work properly [follower tends to hang up on the junction between the extension and the magazine body...a little time with a knife or dremel on the "lip" and the front edges of the follower seems to fix that without causing other issues]. Second is new COTS loadings bringing the price down to .45 ACP practice ammo [with NORMA spec loads of 180 grain bullets travelling at 1250 FPS out of a stock G20 in both Hollowpoint and FMJ from SIG] and some of the new stuff from Underwood that gets it up into magnum/carbine velocities [115 grain solid copper at 1700 FPS/738 ft lbs, 135 grain JHP at 1600 FPS/767 ft lbs for two examples].
Only down side is the the Endo doesn't fit the Gen 4 frames, only the Gen 3, so its not available for the Glock 40 [if you are going to make a dedicated PDW, might as well get a little extra barrel over the stock pistol], unless you mod the Endo adapter...which I may do.

Oh and in case anyone is interested, running a G20 with a G29 chopped grip for concealment, an SI RDS L-adapter, and a "Micro Comp" as my daily carry with two 20 round [standard+5] reloads. Never felt under armed with My SI G19, just decided I wanted a little MORE capability....better to need it and not have it than have it and not need it.

endsoftheearth
08-17-2018, 02:32 AM
I have the desire to make a hit count, on a fleeting target. I really get that PGO is the best tool, I just can get to a handgun much faster when out walking. Next easiest to get to is a Sub 2000, followed by a Glock PDW.

The shotgun is longer and heavier and the ammo weighs a ton. I carry it in an adult baseball bat bag's bat sleeve, that zips closed. In the main compartment is a snub, two reloads and 8 rounds of slugs or 00 in pint sandwich ziplocks. That bag weighs 10lb, at least.

Ja, a 10mm or 45 with 16 rounds of lightweight (half normal for caliber) ammo, rocks to have on you. Sure it's pricey to practice with and it's loud, but a hit is going to do much more than 9mm defensive ammo. Similar to a shotgun, fragmented or other lightweight rapid energy dump (essentially magnum) ammo, is going to destroy muscle off a limb, or open a broomstick sized permanent cavity in the chest wall.

So, fast developing tension haemo-pneumo-thorax, and limb that can't work, from a handgun that weighs no more than its 9mm counterpart. Same for the Sub 2000, a half length sub gun that weighs 4 pounds, with ammo that weighs feathers too.

Then, the most versatile, and lightest of all, the Glock 20 gen 3 Suarez PDW. With lightweight ammo and brace, the lightest and most portable of all the weapon systems. Ideal for hunting too, with a variety of ammo.

I just find these to be ideal systems, for myself at least. And, caliber above 9mm is what rounds it up a notch. Sure mags are not all compatible but 40 will work in the unmodified 10. And, of course, high cap 10mm mags are going to be the cream on the cake. Hurry please Kriss.

You guessed it, I don't carry the PGO around, it stays in the trunk. It can however be fired while in the sleeve, so would be a great equalizer while out and about. I recently had a tyre changed at a business owned and operated by just two men. Both middle aged Hispanic men, with a weights room in the back.

When we arrived one was in the shop bays watching the street, while his business partner pumped iron in the back.It's near a baseball stadium so the bag didn't look out of place on the table next to me, as my daughter and wife sat beside me in the bay, facing the street.

I've never felt so safe in the hood, even though ex-cons were plying the sidewalk too and from the corner store like pacing tigers at the zoo.