PDA

View Full Version : PDW Zero?



Johnny C!
07-20-2017, 10:58 AM
I made it to the range with my Tac-14 &
PDW Tuesday night. We had a rain delay,
so we didn't have a lot of time before dark,
so we had to keep things brief.

I did a quick zero on paper at about 15 yards.

After that I ran about another 50 rounds at
7" diameter plates using ETS 30 rounders.

The PDW ran like like champ. I will have
to do a proper zero when I get it back to
the range.

At what distance are you guys zeroing for
street use?

I was thinking 50 yards, but I would like
some input from WT.

Thanks!

John



53049

Brent Yamamoto
07-20-2017, 11:50 AM
I zero all my RMRs at 10 yards and just aim at what I want to hit.

At 75-100 yards I hold at the neck line. Further than that, it depends.

LawDog
07-20-2017, 12:38 PM
We had a rain delayI hope this is some kind of silly rule that the range enforces. If you actually waited because you were worried that you might melt in the rain, I would tease you mercilessly.

I used to use a 50-yd zero. My rationale was that it was the sweet spot for managing drop from the muzzle all the way out to 200y. But after listening to some comments from Greg Nichols, I reconsidered that. (Mixed in among the constant stream of off-color humor is the occasional nugget of wisdom.) The pistol is a close-range weapon. Yes, we want to be able to shoot as far as possible. And it is thrilling to ring steel at 200y+ with a handgun. But you are far more likely to face an adversary at 5y. And the likelihood of needing to place a very precise shot at 5y is much greater than the likelihood of needing to take any shot at 100y. After weighing out those probabilities, I decided to shift the emphasis back to the scenario of a room-distance hostage shot. So I now use a 15y zero, which is virtually indistinguishable from a 10y zero.

Johnny C!
07-21-2017, 04:35 PM
We were at a friends private range.

We decided to have dinner instead
of getting out in a major thunder
storm. Localized flooding, one
reported structure fire after it
was hit by lightning, a microburst
reported at a local airport, trees
down from high winds, etc. The
usual summer weather pattern
for my OA, so tease away!

I'm going with a 25 yard zero. This
should put me 2" low at 50 yards
an body shots at 100 should be
easy, as well.

Thanks for all of the input!

John

Yondering
07-21-2017, 11:35 PM
A 10 yard zero really is the way to go with an 9mm RMR Glock, regardless whether it's a PDW or pistol. (Although as LawDog points out it'll be hard to tell the difference from a 15 yard zero.) A 10 yard zero has a 50-60 yard far zero depending on ammo, and gives you a longer point blank range where you can hold dead on instead of holding over, with no downside compared to a 25 yard zero. At all distances between 10 and 60 yards, you'll hit less than 1" higher than POA, which basically means POA = POI between 5 and 75 yards.

EDELWEISS
07-22-2017, 06:43 AM
I think we need to remember that its both a SMG and a PISTOL. Its a SMG in the sense that you'll be shouldering (errrr cheek bracing) it for longer shots but those shots will still likely be limited to 100yrds max AND its a Pistol, in that it has a 5 inch +/- depending on the model you chose; but more importantly you are likely going to be wanting more precision from your shots because there will certainly be friendlies and innocents around.

No doubt some of you have hit tiny targets at a quarter mile in a hurricane with your PDW; but I think 100 yards is about the reasonable maximum range from a 5" Glock even with a brace. OTOH most shooting will probably be MUCH closer and you'll expect much more precision and FAST precise shooting from it without needing to remember to adjust for a different zero.

I think a zero at anything out to or under 25 yards is fine as long as you use the zero that you are comfortable with in a UN braced handgun. The thing is a 9mm PDW is a upclose weapon. IF you wanna chose a different cartridge (357SIG or 10mm or something really special), then you could maybe stretch your zero BUT keep in mind its still a UP CLOSE gun

Johnny C!
07-22-2017, 07:10 AM
Thanks Guys.

I have been looking at trajectory charts
for 9mm, but I haven't found any that
were complete enough for me to make
a confident decision.

I appreciate the clarification.

John




A 10 yard zero really is the way to go with an 9mm RMR Glock, regardless whether it's a PDW or pistol. (Although as LawDog points out it'll be hard to tell the difference from a 15 yard zero.) A 10 yard zero has a 50-60 yard far zero depending on ammo, and gives you a longer point blank range where you can hold dead on instead of holding over, with no downside compared to a 25 yard zero. At all distances between 10 and 60 yards, you'll hit less than 1" higher than POA, which basically means POA = POI between 5 and 75 yards.

Greg Nichols
07-22-2017, 08:38 AM
I have been looking at trajectory charts
for 9mm, but I haven't found any that
were complete enough for me to make
a confident decision.



Two little points to make.
1) the reason there isn't much data on it is because we're the only people in the gun and gun training world that think a 100M pistol shot is reasonable, nobody else even really tests it.
2) You may want to follow the suggestions of the folks that have been working/training/testing with the RDS pistol for around a decade and go with a 10-15M zero. We may know a little something on the subject. Just sayin'

Johnny C!
07-22-2017, 09:50 AM
Roger that.

It's why I am here.

John



Two little points to make.
1) the reason there isn't much data on it is because we're the only people in the gun and gun training world that think a 100M pistol shot is reasonable, nobody else even really tests it.
2) You may want to follow the suggestions of the folks that have been working/training/testing with the RDS pistol for around a decade and go with a 10-15M zero. We may know a little something on the subject. Just sayin'

Spiffy
07-29-2017, 06:03 AM
From what I've seen zeros are either 10 yards or 50 yards and then just knowing your holds. We use a 10 yard zero among us here at Warriortalk and I know several gamers use 50 yards because of the occasional long range steel plate/popper and its the same as their PCC so the holds are the same.. It just comes down to what you intend the gun to be for and what holds you want to use.

Nabalfodrows
07-18-2018, 08:09 AM
Is there a general consensus on this subject?

Greg Nichols
07-18-2018, 08:21 AM
From what I've seen zeros are either 10 yards or 50 yards and then just knowing your holds. We use a 10 yard zero among us here at Warriortalk and I know several gamers use 50 yards because of the occasional long range steel plate/popper and its the same as their PCC so the holds are the same.. It just comes down to what you intend the gun to be for and what holds you want to use.

I don't want to have to account for dope under stress at close distance where I need to guarantee the shot. Are you a bench rest, bulls eye shooter or are you a gun fighter? With a 10 yard zero I can, on demand, make a 50m+ head shot and a well over 100m body shot. I don't have to dope for an eyeball shot inside those intimate distances all the way out to a fight ender shots at 50+. Since this covers the envelope of likely engagement that is the best option, hell in the last red dot class I made a 100m shot on a man sized target with the gun upside-down in my non dominant hand.


Is there a general consensus on this subject?

10 yards

Ted Demosthenes
07-18-2018, 08:23 AM
Is there a general consensus on this subject?

Work with 10 yds/m for a while, it should support the majority of your intended or potential engagements.

Yondering
07-18-2018, 09:01 AM
With an RMR Glock and +P 115 or 124 gr ammo, your 10 yard zero should be essentially a 50 yard zero as well, or close enough you can't tell the difference. Even with slower 147gr ammo it should be very close to right on at 50yd.

Jon Payne
07-18-2018, 11:15 AM
Two little points to make.
1) the reason there isn't much data on it is because we're the only people in the gun and gun training world that think a 100M pistol shot is reasonable, nobody else even really tests it.
2) You may want to follow the suggestions of the folks that have been working/training/testing with the RDS pistol for around a decade and go with a 10-15M zero. We may know a little something on the subject. Just sayin'

56089

Brightlightman
07-18-2018, 06:30 PM
Listen to the experts. I was making hits on steel at about 200yds with a Glock 43, just zero normally (10yds).

Blacked out
07-19-2018, 04:10 AM
Another here for the 10 yard zero. Besides exactly what Greg was saying about not having to think about dope, I think there is the benefit of being able to get a super tight zero at say 10 yards over 50. I am no where near as proficient as many of the guys here so I may be off base but at 10 yards and the small adjustment capabilities of the RMR make for a real nice tight zero. As Gabe says, thatís eyeball shots in every distance within my house. Can I get that precise with a 50 yard zero? No I personally cannot.

Greg Nichols
07-19-2018, 06:18 AM
Another here for the 10 yard zero. Besides exactly what Greg was saying about not having to think about dope, I think there is the benefit of being able to get a super tight zero at say 10 yards over 50. I am no where near as proficient as many of the guys here so I may be off base but at 10 yards and the small adjustment capabilities of the RMR make for a real nice tight zero. As Gabe says, that’s eyeball shots in every distance within my house. Can I get that precise with a 50 yard zero? No I personally cannot.

With Suarez parts and a bit of practice you should be able to cloverleaf at 10 yards

Yondering
07-19-2018, 11:14 AM
Another here for the 10 yard zero. Besides exactly what Greg was saying about not having to think about dope, I think there is the benefit of being able to get a super tight zero at say 10 yards over 50. I am no where near as proficient as many of the guys here so I may be off base but at 10 yards and the small adjustment capabilities of the RMR make for a real nice tight zero. As Gabe says, that’s eyeball shots in every distance within my house. Can I get that precise with a 50 yard zero? No I personally cannot.

You guys are still missing the fact that a 10 yard zero is essentially the same as a 50 yard zero. It doesn't matter what you call it.