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Gabriel Suarez
07-17-2017, 04:53 PM
This is not quite an article...but a concept. The material exists and I have it all but complete for presentation...which I will do soon. But first...the why...of course.

A martial system is based on concepts, strategies, tactics and techniques. One does not just "go fight", or "go shoot" as much as the simpletons of the American gun scene would have you believe. Fighting - whether hand or gun - is learned. Fighting must be mindless and automatic to bring victory. And for that to happen...it must be based on a series of accepted concepts that lead to a strategy of combat. And the tactics and techniques are developed around such things.

For example, lets take our system of gunfighting. Not a theoretical matter at all, nor one based in sports. I have killed men with the things I teach you thus the systems has not been through as many clean hands as say...karate or kendo has. We define fighting by the assignment of initiative. Either you have it, and thus you begin and end the fight with nothing but timing and marksmanship. Or your adversary has it, requiring you to respond to his attack...receiving it and maneuvering for a counter attack.

We defined the parameters of proactive and develop the mental, emotional, and spiritual attitude to draw a pistol, align it on another man's face and press the trigger...taking his life like a bite out of an apple. A cold and calculated maneuver preempting his advantage. I have done this.

We also defined the dynamics and parameters of reactive, and study the situation as well as what is required by the situation to prevail. Recognition of attack. Determination of line of conflict and direction of pressure. Avenues of evasion and movement. This last taught as the "Take Off", combined with weapon access and deployment mid evasion. And all the concepts and ideas we discuss relating to the matter at hand.

That is our system. That is Suarez-Ryu if you will entertain the analogy...

As I have been drifting back into my original life...my original study of Karate I realized that I have been feeling some frustration at the misunderstanding of what we teach. I suppose I am not the first...and that is why the old teachers developed the kata...or simply pre-organized self directed study systems. Because they, like me, realized they would not be here forever, and that lest their life's work be forgotten with their passing, such things needed to be codified...and set...lest it all be for naught.

The kata served as a catalog of movement, and strategies, and tactics, and techniques of a given teacher. What worked for him was organized into a set practice regimen for his students. And thus the old teachers left their life's work for their students to know and to study in the kata. And I think we need to do likewise.

The lazy fatheads will roll their eyes at this, but I could not care less what their opinions are as they stuff their faces with doughnuts while watching 3 gun nation.

What I have devoted my life to is not for games...and I am beginning to understand deeply what some of the old teachers felt. Knowledge needs to be organized to be practiced and remembered. And to be taught to others. And it needs to be done by the founder of the study...the one with bloody hands.

Stand by. In the next few weeks we will see exactly what I have discussed here.

LawDog
07-17-2017, 07:59 PM
Anxiously waiting. I took up Hojutsu Ryu a few years ago and pursued it for a a little more than a year. Ultimately, I found too many flaws and determined that it wasn't an efficient use of my time, so I went back to my primarily solo training. It was useful for certain skills, but it never grew into what I really wanted. And I spent enough time asking questions to determine that it never would. It is a brand new art that is already stagnant. But there is an idea within there that is worth developing.

JDoza
07-17-2017, 08:14 PM
I am interested in the direction you are heading with this Gabe...

Gabriel Suarez
07-17-2017, 08:14 PM
I know Jeff Hall personally. He is a good guy, but I disagree with some of his positions. If you look at real sword forms, they are very simple and clean. I will do the same thing. It is LIKE solo practice...but more joined and directed. It will give a framework of practice. The kata establishes the concept and strategy. The various iterations of "kumite" or technical drils, will give the hands on work as in hand to hand systems. And the full speed, full pressure force on force brings it all together. We fight just like we do Kata...which is the entire point and what makes a system.

Oh and we won't be doing "belt" stuff. The original warriors didn't do any of that stuff.

barnetmill
07-17-2017, 09:36 PM
Rifle katas would be useful and also with getting off the x and sul.

Gabriel Suarez
07-17-2017, 09:45 PM
Consider the progression

Combat success leads to codification of concept and strategy...recognized via success of technique and tactic.
Technique and tactic are trained and refined as individual movements.
In order to crystalize those movements and codify them for the future, and thereby also teach concept and strategy, they are set forth in a kata.

Backward planning at its best.

Students then learn the kata, and thereby the concept and strategy that birthed it. The same 100 years from now, barring dramatic weaponry changes, as they are done today. Consider the east and the west systems of combat. Had the west used the concept of organized self-directed training, the methods of the west would be as remembered today as those of the east.

CaptShack
07-17-2017, 10:36 PM
I love the concept and can see the direct translation of the eastern martial arts Kata. It reinforces pathways in the brain that make the moves "mindless." In fighter jets the flying part is easy, however, employing the weapon system was very difficult. You had to fly without conscious thought, because you needed your brain to solve the real problem of the fight/engagement. It should be the same in the gun fight. The shooting skills should be mindless, so you can concentrate on the OODA loop and winning the fight. The Kata is a more formalized way to train mindlessness.

Brent Yamamoto
07-17-2017, 10:43 PM
In order to crystalize those movements and codify them for the future, and thereby also teach concept and strategy, they are set forth in a kata.

Had the west used the concept of organized self-directed training, the methods of the west would be as remembered today as those of the east.

THIS

Regarding sword forms and simplicity...

I know a handful of sword forms. They are short, simple, direct and elegant. That simplicity allows sharp focus to help perfect a given movement. I much prefer short kata to long, drawn out kata...much of the value is lost with a long form IMO.

The sword forms I know are almost all 5 or less movements. Draw, cut, and re-sheath the blade. A different kata would turn another direction and cut a different way. Sometimes there is a stab. Each kata is designed to teach three, maybe four techniques. I appreciate the focus and simplicity.

Marco Innocenti
07-17-2017, 11:09 PM
Excited to receive when ready.

And you Sir, (and your other traditionally trained "martial" instructors), need to develop an S.I. funnel. Maybe more of a slightly truncated cylinder...

Because there are times a cup cannot be emptied fast enough 'round here.

jmoore
07-18-2017, 06:44 AM
If you stop to think about it, dry firing is to shooting what kihon is to martial arts study, i.e., "the basics".

Taken a step farther, force-on-force is the equivalent of kumite.

I anxiously await the kata!!!! HAJIME!!!


geezer john
Godan Renshi Isshin Ryu

Benjamin Liu
07-18-2017, 06:57 AM
This is just an example of what sword kata are like, not a specific sword kata:

1. Defender stands with sword drawn in Gedan no Kamae (sort of like the Low Ready but with a sword) and the attacker stands in Jodan (holding the sword above the head.)

2. Attacker strikes downward and the defender steps forward off the X at a 45 degree angle while bringing his blade up to cut the attacker's wrists.

3. Defender cuts off attacker's head.




IMO commonly taught drills like the Mozambique and Tuller Drill would fall into the definition of kata.

barnetmill
07-18-2017, 07:09 AM
For me the value of a kata is that it is something that I can make myself do late at night. That is you make them a routine. If you learn them well enough the moves can be applied in a real life scenario without even consciously thinking about them. This allows one to be more attentive to the scenario at hand rather then trying to think out a solution in a split second. If the movements are practiced a lot, one will also when preforming them do them better. But of course when training, one must always be thinking what the moves are for and do them in what will be the most effective way. I would like to preform them with an air soft at home and as needed modify them for use at the range with a firearm.

AFSOCCRNA
07-18-2017, 07:53 AM
I'm very excited/interested in this idea. Would love to come to Prescott to learn these firsthand.

Gabriel Suarez
07-18-2017, 08:14 AM
IMO commonly taught drills like the Mozambique and Tuller Drill would fall into the definition of kata.

In concept...yess. But the majority of US gunwork is stationary, and formulated for live fire only. Simple is good...but the extreme is dumbing it down so idiots could understand it.

Gabriel Suarez
07-18-2017, 08:16 AM
1). That is you make them a routine.

2). can be applied in a real life scenario without even consciously thinking about them.

3). allows one to be more attentive to the scenario at hand rather then trying to think out a solution in a split second.

4). always be thinking what the moves are for and do them in what will be the most effective way.

5). I would like to preform them with an air soft at home and as needed modify them for use at the range with a firearm.

You have a firm grasp of the concept young Skywalker.

Sam Spade
07-18-2017, 08:40 AM
Kata are practiced by a great many who don't have a clue as to the detailed meaning of the movement. This is more prevalent in the -do than the -jutsu worlds, but it's still seen in both. Some teachers (systems) deliberately separate things into ura and omote in part to provide an institutional way of addressing such, but I'm not sure it's a good answer.

Related to that is the ignorant addition of flash to the form. Since dude doesn't know what's going on, might as well make it visually appealing, no?

Other systems have been down this road before. Might be nice to start out with a plan to avoid their potholes.

Benjamin Liu
07-18-2017, 09:12 AM
Related to that is the ignorant addition of flash to the form. Since dude doesn't know what's going on, might as well make it visually appealing, no?



This has come about by people not only not understanding a specific kata, but totally misunderstanding the purpose of kata.

They basically think it is a dance, so they get flashy and unrealistic, and even use weapons not found in their actual martial art, that is, weapons they have no idea how to use.

I first saw this at a martial arts expo I was volunteering at. Some guy was doing a stupid kama dance, and at the end he stood in a horse stance and flailed the pair of kama from their lanyards around his thighs. This would obviously me an idiotic thing to do with actual blades. The crowd loved it.

Maybe 10 years ago I went to a message board from a system I used to train in that prided itself in how "realistic" it was. There was a thread on "musical kata" and I thought it was a joke until I clicked on it.

The really stupid thing that is popular these days is "sword kata" from people who train in systems that to not train in swords (and apparently don't understand that edges cut,) so they have no real instruction other than that they have an object to twirl around when they dance.

Gabriel Suarez
07-18-2017, 09:33 AM
A kata is a catalog of strategic and conceptual movement, taken from successful fighting methods, proven in combat, and organized in a brief collection of movements, easily remembered and repeated.

The practice there of leading to technical excellence as well as automatic execution under duress.

The combat origin and the student's full understanding of the application is imperative. That last point is missing in Asian systems and has to do with protecting skills ... opsec if you will...from rivals that may have offered combat at any moment, and knowing your strategy would give them an advantage. That situation is not present here.

A kata is not a gymnastics floor exercise nor is its purpoae to impress. A kata is the training of killing science, alone, for repeated physical memorisation. Period.

Trying to make a kata "pretty" would be what the bullet golfers would do...and I do not have such people in my organisation.

Ted Demosthenes
07-18-2017, 10:07 AM
Consider the progression

Combat success leads to codification of concept and strategy...recognized via success of technique and tactic.
Technique and tactic are trained and refined as individual movements.
In order to crystalize those movements and codify them for the future, and thereby also teach concept and strategy, they are set forth in a kata.

Backward planning at its best.

Students then learn the kata, and thereby the concept and strategy that birthed it. The same 100 years from now, barring dramatic weaponry changes, as they are done today. Consider the east and the west systems of combat. Had the west used the concept of organized self-directed training, the methods of the west would be as remembered today as those of the east.

We should take this up and explore it thoroughly. We have a skilled tribe and a considerable body of tech to draw from.

Gabriel Suarez
07-18-2017, 10:49 AM
I will not allow thread fuckery nor derailment here

BJJ223
07-18-2017, 11:40 AM
I like the idea of this too. About 4 weeks ago, I just started doing 100 ready up drills with my AR15 every day. Last weekend, I went out shooting jackrabbits. The shots were from 25 yds to 150 yds. Compared to my previous outings, I shot about 5-10 times better than before. The results were spectacular. In a 4 hour hunt, walking about 5 miles through the desert, I shot about 40 jackrabbits.

I would love to hear what you come up with. I am a believer.

P.S. I also train kata every day. It is the heart and soul of karate. I am expected to have done 5000 Kwanku before my Nidan test in 2019. I am at 3140.

jlwilliams
07-18-2017, 08:06 PM
There is a similarity between dry fire and basic, old kata like San Chin. I'm interested to see where you go with this.

3corners
07-19-2017, 12:40 AM
I am looking forward to your take on this, I have a 16 step dry drills "Kata" that incorporates all manipulation and dry fire drills but (big BUT) with no movement.