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View Full Version : The Glock PDW: Changing the Caliber Paradigm



DogDoc
05-10-2016, 12:42 PM
I'm a solid 9mm guy for my EDC pistols. The principle reason for me is faster follow-up shots due to less muzzle flip. I just shoot 9mm better than I shoot the other calibers.

Enter the Glock PDW with Endo Stock/KAK Blade arrangement... Because of the extra points of contact I find that muzzle flip is irrelevant.

As a result my home-defense setup has changed from a RMR 9mm to a RMR 45 acp Glock 21 PDW with a Kriss mag. Bigger holes, less likelihood of over penetration...what's not to like? The Endo/KAK apparatus solves the recoil argument and the Kriss mag solves the capacity problem. All that's left on the table are the advantages of 45 over 9mm.

Even more shocking is that I now own a couple of 40s. I used to hate .40s...snappy little boogers. But again the endo/KAK made all the difference. When Gabe comes out with a barrel, one of them will become a .357 SIG.

I was so pleased with the Endo's recoil taming that I even ordered a RMR 10mm Glock 20 from Gabe. I look forward to running full-power loads through it and even bought a 9x25 Dillon Barrel for it.

Anyway, I know that all pistols are underpowered compared to rifles and a hole in the right place is effective pretty much regardless of the size of that hole but for me the Glock PDW concept has eliminated most of my arguments for 9mm monogamy and opened up a lot of interesting alternatives for various roles.

Doc

EDELWEISS
05-10-2016, 12:59 PM
Doc,

Whats your source for the Kriss mags? Id love to do a QC10 set up in 10mm; but I couldnt find a reliable source for the mag extensions, so I put the project on hold

BeardedPelican
05-10-2016, 12:59 PM
You make some good points. I'm curious how a 460 Rowland would fair with the pdw setup.

tact999
05-10-2016, 02:53 PM
You make some good points. I'm curious how a 460 Rowland would fair with the pdw setup.

Curious as well, and am working toward actually putting that setup together now.

DogDoc
05-10-2016, 03:06 PM
You make some good points. I'm curious how a 460 Rowland would fair with the pdw setup.

I think 460 Rowland in a G21 would be very cool.

DogDoc
05-10-2016, 03:07 PM
Doc,

Whats your source for the Kriss mags? Id love to do a QC10 set up in 10mm; but I couldnt find a reliable source for the mag extensions, so I put the project on hold

Some guy on fuddbroker.

Scottman
05-10-2016, 03:08 PM
I have a lot of different PDW's and agree with you. What ballistic advantages does your PDW sized weapon give you? to be honest once you know the capabilities of your systems and your wants/needs you might not just choose a 9mm PDW.....

curious to how the 9" 9x25 barrel does with the double tap ammo I ordered. Reminds me of the mech tech 357 sig project great write up. I'll be getting the trajectory and running it against some body armor.

Brent Yamamoto
05-10-2016, 03:08 PM
I spent a lot of time and effort (as did Yondering) on the Mechtech platform, developing it for bag carry in 357 Sig. It was a good study.

And then along comes the Glock PDW. Compared to the Mechtech, it's lighter, easier to put together (no gunsmithing!), smaller, more accurate, more reliable. Factoring in time and smith expense, the finished PDW is probably cheaper too.

Win and win.

Scottman
05-10-2016, 03:22 PM
lol both posts at 3:08

I will say at least with FMJ ammo / defensive loads my mech tech seems a lot more accurate then then some of the pistol PDW's Ive been testing jsut being honest. Still evauluating with different carry loads in accuracy at 100 yards

Eager to see how that 9x25 barrel does with two loads I ordered from double tap ammo.

mostly I carry a fixed barrel PDW that offers the best capabilities I have found myself.

MesserMan
05-10-2016, 03:39 PM
Absolutely. When I get around to building a dedicated Glock/ ENDO PDW, it's either going to be 10mm or .357 SIG. Probably 10mm. .460 Rowland and 9x25 Dillon are both being considered too, depending on how hard good ammo is to source for them.

With the brace, I can't really see any reason not to go with a slightly more powerful caliber.

LawDog
05-10-2016, 05:29 PM
I generally opt for uniformity and consistency, so it takes a lot to pull me away from 9mm. I've got loaded 9mm mags floating around all over the place, so I am never far away from extra spare magazines. As long as I have a 9mm on me, those mags are useful. As soon as I switch to another caliber, I lose that versatility.

I do, though, wonder about a bear gun. The Glock 20 is virtually the official modern bear pistol for Alaska. (The old guys still carry revolvers, but I'm not that old.) I was finally ready to depart from 9mm and buy a G20, and then someone whispered ".460 Rowland" in my ear, and I've been conflicted ever since. Until I sort it out, I'll just plan to kill bears with a lowly 9mm. I feel pretty safe, though. Bears don't usually attack sharks.

Gabriel Suarez
05-10-2016, 05:35 PM
I will write more but, there is a progression of weapons

Sniper Rifles
Battle Rifles (sometimes very similar)
Assault Rifles (sometimes made into sniper systems)
Reduced Assault Rifles (aka carbines...you cannot put an M1 Carbine in the same genre as an AK or an M4)
Enhanced SMGs (semi or full, no matter. Think 10mm MP5...I think the 460 and the enhanced power pistol PDWs fit here)
SMGs and PDWs (anything 9mm with hybrids in the 5.7 genre)
Reduced SMGs (Czech Skorpion, P90)
Handguns

DogDoc
05-10-2016, 05:58 PM
I will write more but, there is a progression of weapons

...
Enhanced SMGs (semi or full, no matter. Think 10mm MP5...I think the 460 and the enhanced power pistol PDWs fit here)
...


Power Pistol PDW has a nice ring to it. Almost makes a guy want to wander around in bear country. :)
I think these rascals have a lot of potential as woods defense guns and hunters. Not to mention the barrier/armor-defeating urban apps.

Im getting quite jazzed about the 10mm w/ 1 MoA RMR your elves are making for me. Say the word and I'll mail you the 9x25 Dillon barrel and some ammo so you can assess the concept. :)

Doc

Dbltap717
05-10-2016, 06:15 PM
I've been mulling a g20 for some time now...this isn't (read: is) helping.

ETA: maybe a g21 is the better choice...after reading your thread about the versatility of that platform...

Bearbait in NM
05-11-2016, 10:10 AM
For folks looking for the 21 Kriss mags, Kriss has them in stock again. I ordered quite a few late last week, and they shipped within two days, and I should have them by Friday. They have not had them for at least 6 months (nor has anyone else) so if you are thinking maybe, might want to pick them up. I have never used one, so cannot speak to their reliability, but have read a lot of info on the knock-off's not working very well.

Craig

DogDoc
05-11-2016, 10:31 AM
I've been mulling a g20 for some time now...this isn't (read: is) helping.

ETA: maybe a g21 is the better choice...after reading your thread about the versatility of that platform...

A G21 will accept barrels from several "power pistol" cartridges. It can't do 9x25 dillon.

EDELWEISS
05-11-2016, 03:30 PM
When I think Bear Gun, handgun anyway, I tend(ed) to think a Freedom Arms 454Casull; but thats just me and I recognize the limitations of a SAA design; but again thats just me. Now as to Intermediate (Enhanced, Magnum, et'al) SMGs, I really DO like the concept. I was kinda interested in the new M1 Carbine pistols for an "Advisor Carbine" build; but thats sorta faded from my list as moving made me realize exactly how many guns I have (had to have) that I really dont shoot or even fondle much.

OTOH an Intermediate SMG has lots of merit in certain AOs. It can be smaller than most SBRd rifle caliber weapons AND its mags will be smaller too. Im liking the idea of a QC10 build as a MP5/10mm clone. I considered it back when I began my QC10 AK9mmK project; but couldnt get my hands on the Kriss mags.

Good Luck on your journey Doc.

EDELWEISS
05-11-2016, 03:36 PM
When I think Bear Gun, handgun anyway, I tend(ed) to think a Freedom Arms 454Casull; but thats just me and I recognize the limitations of a SAA design; but again thats just me. Now as to Intermediate (Enhanced, Magnum, et'al) SMGs, I really DO like the concept. I was kinda interested in the new M1 Carbine pistols for an "Advisor Carbine" build; but thats sorta faded from my list as moving made me realize exactly how many guns I have (had to have) that I really dont shoot or even fondle much.

OTOH an Intermediate SMG has lots of merit in certain AOs. It can be smaller than most SBRd rifle caliber weapons AND its mags will be smaller too. Im liking the idea of a QC10 build as a MP5/10mm clone. I considered it back when I began my QC10 AK9mmK project; but couldnt get my hands on the Kriss mags.

Good Luck on your journey Doc.



*********what was I thinking THIS is a Bear Pistol
48183

4818448185
Say "Howdeeeee" to my little friend


You can even "stock it" if you like
48186

Yondering
05-11-2016, 04:06 PM
A G21 will accept barrels from several "power pistol" cartridges. It can't do 9x25 dillon.

Sure it can. I run 10mm in my G21 slide occasionally; as you know the 9x25 is the same case. The G21 slide isn't ideal because it's a little lighter than the G20 slide, but I've had no function issues with the different case size at all.

Yondering
05-11-2016, 04:18 PM
Dogdoc, have you been shooting your Endo setup on the G21 much, and if so, how well is it working? I tried it on my 21SF frame and was disappointed with the very significant POI shift to one side, but I'm not sure if it's the frame or the trimmed-down Endo flexing. The SF frame required a lot of trimming; more than I'd recommend doing again.

I experienced my Endo/G21 setup stringing shots laterally to the left; it was OK with light 45 loads but not really useable with heavy loads in either the 45 or 10mm slides. Hopefully yours works better. Is it a standard gen 3 G21 frame, non-SF version?

DogDoc
05-11-2016, 08:16 PM
Dogdoc, have you been shooting your Endo setup on the G21 much, and if so, how well is it working? I tried it on my 21SF frame and was disappointed with the very significant POI shift to one side, but I'm not sure if it's the frame or the trimmed-down Endo flexing. The SF frame required a lot of trimming; more than I'd recommend doing again.

I experienced my Endo/G21 setup stringing shots laterally to the left; it was OK with light 45 loads but not really useable with heavy loads in either the 45 or 10mm slides. Hopefully yours works better. Is it a standard gen 3 G21 frame, non-SF version?

My G21 is a Gen4. Shoots well on an Endo that I whittled down to fit.

liberyordeath
11-10-2016, 09:41 AM
Great thread. I recently bought 2 17 frames for PDW purposes. But a 10 or 45 or 9x25 is peaking my interest as a "desert romping" weapon.