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American Infidel
04-13-2016, 11:40 AM
This week I received in the mail a very nice package. I had ordered the Rowland 460 conversion kit for my Glock 21. I was not disappointed by the quality of the conversion kit. In fact every aspect of each component screams quality. The Glock 21 I purchased last week and have yet to shoot it. Today that will change. I will be shooting 45 acp ball today as I am waiting for my 200 rounds of Hard Cast 255 Grn 460 Rowlands to arrive. The conversion gives you 44 magnum power with the high capacity of a Glock 21 (13 rounds). Muzzle rise/flip and felt recoil are greatly reduced. Not that you don't know you have a monster in your hands but its much easier to shoot than standard 44 magnum handguns. The advantages are obvious. Back on target much faster. Noise lever greatly reduced and you have more than twice as many rounds before needing to reload. Reload times are greatly reduced or quicker vs a revolver. Yah yah I know some of you guys are faster than Jerry Miculek. Ive trained with him. So I know how fast he is reloading a revolver. Regardless loading a Pistol is quicker than loading a revolver. Below are some pictures of my converted Glock 21.4784047839

I chose the Rowland Conversion due to my work. I work up here in Alaska and have had some Big Bears on our sites. In fact of the last 8 stations we installed we had 5 bears come onto or real close to our sites. One of our pilots had a real personal experience with a bear. He now carries his Ruger 480 that he always kept in his helicopter. He also does a 360 search around the sites before he sets down. This year we have over 70 sites that will be installed. A handgun I can keep on me at all times. My rifle I have near where I am working. Its not always accessible instantly. The Handgun is.

I will give you all a range report soon.

baker
04-13-2016, 11:53 AM
How difficult is it to remove the comp for cleaning?

Greg Nichols
04-13-2016, 11:56 AM
Bears scare me more than commitment. Especially after watching the bear scene in that De Caprio flick

Dorkface
04-13-2016, 12:06 PM
Ol ephraim isn't something to shake a stick at... just think mountain men only had a double charge in their Hawkins rifle to deal with them.

Dorkface
04-13-2016, 12:16 PM
Bears scare me more than commitment. Especially after watching the bear scene in that De Caprio flick

I havent seen the movie but I heard they changed the ending to Huge Glass's story. I have a number of books filled with tales of the mountain men so I am unsure of the movie lol.

American Infidel
04-13-2016, 12:48 PM
How difficult is it to remove the comp for cleaning?

Don't know yet. The comp has a set pin and uses blue lock tight on the threads. I will let you know after I get some rounds down range. Honestly I don't think it will be difficult. As far as quick cleaning a bore snake will make quick work of the barrel. The encounter our pilot had was a bit scary for him. In fact I asked him to do a quick fly around the site before we sat down to see if there were any bears nearby (which would have shown the bear) he said "Ahh there aint no bears around here. After landing his habit was to always walk around the top of the mountains. I suggested he take his Ruger with him. Again he said "Ahh there aint no bears around here" He now carries his Ruger and does a 360 around the top before he sits down. It always amazes me that some of us have all these tools at hand. It wont take but a few minutes to use or carry them and yet we fail to do so at the cost of our safety. In this case it would have taken him an extra minute or so of flight time to just "see" what is around the top of where we are landing. Also it would have taken him 30 seconds to just tuck his big Hog Leg on the back of his pant (that's exactly how he carries it now). Yet it takes a HUGE Bear that he startled to wake him up. In fact he was 100 yards or so away from us when our second pilot who was a bit higher up than us spotted him and the bear running away from each other.. He was lucky because he would have been dead if the bear had cubs or was hungry. I didn't see the bear at first but when we went over to verify it was gone I spotted it disappearing in the Alder brush below us. His prints were in the clay and he or she had 6" claws or what ever you call them. The foot print swallowed my hand. I will try and find that picture. I use to just carry a rifle now this season I will have a capable hand canon on my hip.

Yondering
04-13-2016, 01:04 PM
I'm curious what you think of follow up shot times after shooting that for a while.

American Infidel
04-13-2016, 01:59 PM
Much faster than a 44 Mag revolver.

Here is my proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqGusmfjWSY

American Infidel
04-13-2016, 02:06 PM
Originally I was going to just go with a 10mm. That's about a 41 magnum level of firepower. But the bullet selection was not that great for Large and Dangerous Game. Then I recalled a conversion for a 1911 to 460 Rowland. Looked it up and while is was nice I had a hard time carrying my $1200 Sig 1911 with a $400 conversion out in the field with only 8 rounds per reload albeit faster. Then on Rowlands web site I saw the did the conversion with a Glock 21. Well now. That held with my saying "Just one more Gun". Funny how that just one more gun saying has a safe full of guns. Anyway, The Glock was $650 or so and the conversion just under $400. Still some what expensive. Plus I wont mind my Glock getting a beating in the field as it will. Its a Glock. It can handle a few scratches here and there.

Yondering
04-13-2016, 03:24 PM
Much faster than a 44 Mag revolver.

Here is my proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqGusmfjWSY

Thanks, but I'm more interested in your own first hand experience.

American Infidel
04-14-2016, 09:49 AM
Shooting 45 ball was a bit easier than with a standard glock. Shooting 45+P was even easier. Muzzle flip was reduced more with the +P ammo. The comp works better with more velocity than it does with less. Makes sense. I didn't put a lot of rounds down range. 50 of 210 grn ball and 10 of 185 grn+P HP. Groups were decent. The stock trigger is the biggest limiting factor there. No failures to feed. I can tell with the stock Glock recoil spring it didn't like the lower power fodder. The compensator I believe has something to do with that and or the added extra mass of the compensator. My next test will be with the 460 Rowland Spring and some heavy weight 255 HC ammo. I also want to check the accuracy against the stock barrel and the same 210 grn 45 ball ammo. Overall this gun will be designed and used just to shoot 460 Rowland loads. Its kind of nice being able to shoot 45 acp from it as well as 45 super. BUT, its primary use for me is for Bear protection. That's it. If I was going to carry a 45 acp Glock I would just buy another Glock 21 or the 41. I didn't buy it for the multi caliber compatibility. For every day street carry I don't see a use for it unless you want to have 44 mag power in your carry gun. But if you are going to be in an area where you are NOT at the top of the food chain I believe this would be the ideal carry gun. I still have some testing to do. I will keep you all posted.



10 rounds ball (30 feet)
47845

5 rounds +P (30 feet)
47846

The 2 flyers were my fault. Just getting use to the Glock trigger.

Pawn
04-14-2016, 03:13 PM
Originally I was going to just go with a 10mm. That's about a 41 magnum level of firepower. But the bullet selection was not that great for Large and Dangerous Game.

http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/ammo/products/10mm-auto-140gr-xtreme-penetrator-ammunition?variant=1070676144

They don't seem to sell loaded ammo for 460 Rowland, but: http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/bullets/products/451cal-45-acp-200gr-xtreme-penetrator-bullet?variant=1168571576

That is what you use if you load your own 460 Rowland.


Their Penetrator ammo is supposed to create a bigger permanent wound cavity than JHP - I sure as hell wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one regardless of the caliber chosen.

tact999
04-14-2016, 04:22 PM
http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/ammo/products/10mm-auto-140gr-xtreme-penetrator-ammunition?variant=1070676144

They don't seem to sell loaded ammo for 460 Rowland, but: http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/bullets/products/451cal-45-acp-200gr-xtreme-penetrator-bullet?variant=1168571576

That is what you use if you load your own 460 Rowland.


Their Penetrator ammo is supposed to create a bigger permanent wound cavity than JHP - I sure as hell wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one regardless of the caliber chosen.

The Penetrator is loaded and for sale on the Rowland site, nonetheless, if this for bears as the OP stated, the 255 grain hard cast is the way to go.

eaboecke
04-14-2016, 04:36 PM
They didn't have this when I got my Glock 20 for Alaska. When I get back to there (Alaska that is) I will look at picking one of these up. Or red dot my Glock 20 with a long barrel. Or both.....

DopeForWind
04-14-2016, 06:53 PM
Now put an RMR on it!

Bearbait in NM
04-15-2016, 08:29 AM
AI,

I have been shooting Rowlands in 1911's since about the time they first came out with the conversion. I also have 45 caliber revolvers that I have downloaded to levels about where the Rowland with the 255 grain bullet will perform for you. The Rowland in the auto is much easier to control for follow-up shots than any revolver that I have loaded to similar pressure levels. I have done this test with single and double action revolvers. The comp not only works, but is mandatory on the semi-auto platform. With my first big bore Glock, a 41 that I recently acquired, I have only done moderate 45 Super, as the 41 is a little on the "thin" side for the Rowland. And the bears we have around my parts are a lot smaller than those you have roaming around.

I think a 21 in Rowland should be on the short list for consideration for anyone wanting a portable, packable, shootable and effective back country option. As to the thoughts of the RMR, while I love my 06 on my 41, depending upon what part of Alaska you are working in, the typical weather and the nature of your work, irons might be a better choice. Chainsawing or busting brush in a constant drizzle while the gun is carried openly, might not be the optimal environmental conditions for an RDS. All depends on what you do up there.

Craig

American Infidel
04-15-2016, 09:32 AM
I get flown in to the top of mountains and we install our seismic stations. I've had to clear brush one time. Not the most comfortable thing to do in Big Bear Country. Iron sites are fine for now I may go with a RMR. This gun will pretty much just run 255 Hard Cast.

Pawn
04-15-2016, 03:38 PM
That IS a pretty sweet setup. It's added to my long list of future purchases.

Buzzy204
04-15-2016, 06:59 PM
After spending last summer and fall packing an 8 inch Colt 44 around Alaska I know exactly what I need for my G21 now, thanks.

Scottman
04-17-2016, 11:11 AM
like the thought of this. How does 460 and 10mm ammo availability local up there? I assume you're ordering on line and or loading your own just curious

Bearbait in NM
04-17-2016, 12:27 PM
I get flown in to the top of mountains and we install our seismic stations. I've had to clear brush one time. Not the most comfortable thing to do in Big Bear Country. Iron sites are fine for now I may go with a RMR. This gun will pretty much just run 255 Hard Cast.

I guess the big downside to the RMR is snow or rain or debris piling up on the top of the RDS. Up at the ranch, when we are slinging concrete or brushing or chainsawing, I toss on my Jellyfish cover. I have it set up so that I can actually flick it off with my strongside thumb. Yes, I too run 255's in mine (Glock Super or 1911 Rowland). I've done enough wet print testing on most of the available jacketed bullets out there, and the Rowland pretty much turns them inside out. Probably fine for some applications, probably not ideal for yours.

One of the benefits of night sights that often goes un-noted is waking up in a strange place (tent or other sleeping arrangement in a remote location) from a noise in the night, and being able to look over to where you gun is lying, and seeing those glowing dots.

Sounds like a fun and interesting occupation.

Craig

Scottman
04-17-2016, 12:46 PM
how is 460 suppressed?

Scottman
04-30-2016, 04:46 PM
bump

barnetmill
04-30-2016, 05:33 PM
I would go 10 mm since it is a factory chambering that the glock has been set up by the factory to function with. I do not like having to use a compensator on a pistol.
As we know the difference on humans between a 9 mm or a .4o and .45 is not so much. I would have to be convinced that the .460 rowland was way superior to the 10mm prior to using it. To disable an attacking bear at close range assuming the bear does not run away after being shot or just shot at it will require a hit to the CNS or breaking a major skeletal component. I am not sure how both calibers compare to each other relative to those tasks.

Gabriel Suarez
04-30-2016, 07:11 PM
We are working on some...err....enhanced uppers for such applications. I may have already said too much.

tact999
04-30-2016, 07:46 PM
Perfect!

American Infidel
04-30-2016, 07:46 PM
Originally I was going to get a 10mm. But the 10mm compared to 44 mag or 460 Rowland is less than ideal. Sure on smaller bears like Black it would be fine. But for our Big Brown Bears I felt I wanted a bigger caliber. I did not want a wheel gun. As stated before I saw a video on the 460 and felt it was a great round. 44 mag power in a high capacity semi auto. I am currently back in Arizona. I had my hernia operation this last Tuesday. This kinda through me for a loop but it needed to be done. I'm still hurten so to speak. I. Brought my gun home and added an extended slide release. Im Going to get one a Gabes triggers for it as well. I plan on going next week if I am up to it physically and put a few rounds down range to see how she performs. I will keep you posted.

American Infidel
04-30-2016, 07:57 PM
There is plenty of 10 mm and a small amount of 460 Rowland available. I had 200 rounds of the 460 Hard Cast sent to my house here in Arizona as they wont ship it to Alaska. But I do have a source to buy it there. 50 rounds is about 60 bucks in Alaska. This is not a plinking gun. But the company will buy what I need for practice every month.

Scottman
04-30-2016, 08:06 PM
ever run it suppressed?

American Infidel
05-01-2016, 08:53 AM
ever run it suppressed?

The barrel is a threaded barrel. I do not know the pitch but suspect one could run it suppressed if desired. My application would see the suppressor more of a hazard. The extra length would require a longer presentation in a time limited situation.

Dbltap717
05-01-2016, 06:13 PM
We are working on some...err....enhanced uppers for such applications. I may have already said too much.

do what now?

American Infidel
05-01-2016, 06:20 PM
Gabe an upper would be perfect in an AR platform for me. Let me know if you do it. In the mean time if you want to shoot this set up PM me and I can have the wife drop it off to you for eval.