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View Full Version : The Glock PDW vs Mini SMGs



EDELWEISS
02-21-2016, 10:33 AM
As I typed the title it occurred to me that maybe it should be "and" instead of versus. You guys know I like SMGs. There are plenty of SMGs in the mini/micro size range (Skorpion Vz61, Mac 10, Micro/Mini UZI, TP etc). Clearly the Glock is closer to the Broomhandle / Stechkin than a MAC; but for "our" criteria I think they play the same, especially if we stick with semi auto only even if we factor in the SBR option.

The Glock certainly wins in the weight/bulk category. Perhaps its not in the Go To WAR category; but again, for our purposes, the chances of "us" using it like that are slim, compared to walking into a Active Shooter incident. I'll admit thas much as I like my Mac10 the Glock PDW is easier to carry in every way except overall size because the MAC's stock folds and I havent decided how best to do that to the Glock (yet); but the MAC is HEAVY compared to the Glock. The Vz61 is lighter and small; but its only .32acp. The (unfolded) Glock approaches the length of a FOLDED Sterling SMG, both can be fired in that configuration; but I dont carry the Sterling to the mall very much. Im a huge fan of the QC10 AR-K; but its heavier than a Glock PDW and a tad bit bigger.

Thoughts?

DogDoc
02-21-2016, 03:39 PM
I looked at a CZ Evo at a show last week. It was very cool and a few months ago I'd have snapped it up. But since putting a few Glock/Endo/Kak PDWs together, I have no interest at all. IMO, the Glock PDW has made all other SMGs obsolete. Heck even my AR pistol is nervous!

Doc

TheGrayMan214
02-21-2016, 05:14 PM
Imagine, if you will, a world without the NFA.... Assuming one could legally acquire and carry them without risk of prison, what submachine gun problem couldn't be solved with an RMR'd Glock 18 fitted with a PDW kit, hinge, and replacing the Shockwave with a minimalist AR stock? (Remember, the first word of this was to assume that we lived in a world where the NFA didn't exist...)

I think the modern Glock PDW, as we know it with the stabilizer, is a direct replacement for the MP5K-PDW, Mini Uzi, and other small stocked subguns of the past... The ONLY exception to this would be if you had access to select-fire systems that the Glock PDW as we know it now can't offer.... That said, if you can legally get your hands on an 18, this is once again irrelevant.

I don't think it replaces larger SMG's (with their longer barrels and the extra sight radius they provide) like the MP5 or full size Uzi... but I think the new QuarterCircle 10 Glock mag lowers on a properly built upper does.

With that said, I don't see anything wrong with someone wanting to run an older, legacy gun or some of the newer SMG like weapons out there at all... quite the contrary actually... I just think that with the proliferation (worldwide and especially among the WT Tribe) of Glock mags, a weapon that runs Glock mags or is built off a Glock pistol has taken a couple huge steps ahead of its competition right off the bat.

Gabriel Suarez
02-21-2016, 07:34 PM
I think we established long ago that full auto was of marginal benefit. And that all SMG quals can be maxed on semi auto.

TheGrayMan214
02-21-2016, 08:05 PM
I think we established long ago that full auto was of marginal benefit. And that all SMG quals can be maxed on semi auto.

Totally true. A select-fire offering is the only thing legacy SMG systems can offer that the Glock PDW as we know it (barring the kit being fitted to an 18) does not. Not so much intended as meaning there was an "advantage" for select-fire systems as it was "is select-fire available for those that feel the need for it or not."

The only use I could ever foresee for anything other than semi on a subgun is so highly unlikely for anyone not in a very particular field of close protection work it doesn't even warrant mention in this type of thread.

t15
02-22-2016, 10:36 AM
a cz evo weighs 6 pounds unloaded. a g17 w/ endo and stock weighs under 2 pounds unloaded. you can easily build an ar15 in 300bo or a pistol caliber w/ an 8" barrel or shorter, pdw stock etc that weighs under 6 pounds loaded.

why even bother with pistol caliber smg/carbines?

Gabriel Suarez
02-22-2016, 10:49 AM
a cz evo weighs 6 pounds unloaded. a g17 w/ endo and stock weighs under 2 pounds unloaded. you can easily build an ar15 in 300bo or a pistol caliber w/ an 8" barrel or shorter, pdw stock etc that weighs under 6 pounds loaded.

why even bother with pistol caliber smg/carbines?


The rest of us see merit in the package.

DogDoc
02-22-2016, 12:34 PM
a cz evo weighs 6 pounds unloaded. a g17 w/ endo and stock weighs under 2 pounds unloaded. you can easily build an ar15 in 300bo or a pistol caliber w/ an 8" barrel or shorter, pdw stock etc that weighs under 6 pounds loaded.

why even bother with pistol caliber smg/carbines?

Ever fire a short barreled AR indoors? I guess the advantage is that even if you miss the bad guy, he'll be blind and deaf for several minutes.

I'm a big fan of short ARs but I think indoors the pistol calibers really shine and the Glock PDW seems like a much lighter and more versatile option than any of the others.

Doc

Housertl
02-22-2016, 01:51 PM
YOU should not. The rest of us see merit in the package.

I read his statement differently; to me it looked like he was saying that since the G17 with Endo and Shockwave was 60% lighter than something like the EVO, and smaller to boot, and because you can build an AR SBR of comparable size and weight to the EVO, what is the point of full size SMGs like the UZI/MP5/EVO anymore. The Glock PDW does everything they do, in a smaller, lighter package, and the AR SBR can do more in the same size weight envelope. You've squeezed the full sized SMG out of a niche.

Gabriel Suarez
02-22-2016, 02:02 PM
I read his statement differently; to me it looked like he was saying that since the G17 with Endo and Shockwave was 60% lighter than something like the EVO, and smaller to boot, and because you can build an AR SBR of comparable size and weight to the EVO, what is the point of full size SMGs like the UZI/MP5/EVO anymore. The Glock PDW does everything they do, in a smaller, lighter package, and the AR SBR can do more in the same size weight envelope. You've squeezed the full sized SMG out of a niche.


Maybe you are right. Too many "all you need is a 308 battle rifle" emails lately.

Dark One
02-22-2016, 04:47 PM
I went with all three.... SBR AR, Evo 3, Glock PDW...... Why stop with just one?:finger: Fun to be had with all.

EDELWEISS
02-22-2016, 05:49 PM
OK a few more "fine-er" points--once we agree to take the "Go To War" out of the equation and insert "Go to the Mall"; then the weight savings of the Glock PDW begins to make a real difference. That being said the Glock PDW is more of a Stocked Pistol then a SMG, and Stocked Pistols have never been a good substitute for SMGs (but thats in a military context and theres that GO TO WAR vs GO TO THE MALL thing. So the line is blurring, IF escaping or even confronting the mall active shooter is your worst case scenario, then the Glock PDW seems near perfect BUT if travelling through riot zones (Baltimore) seems just as likely then something more might be desired.

Where does the Glock PDW fit in the lexicon of small arms?....Well lets see, we generally define a PDW as something more than a pistol but less than a rifle, perhaps the Glock PDW is better defined as more than a pistol but less than a SMG???

wil
05-05-2016, 01:18 PM
OK a few more "fine-er" points--once we agree to take the "Go To War" out of the equation and insert "Go to the Mall"; then the weight savings of the Glock PDW begins to make a real difference. That being said the Glock PDW is more of a Stocked Pistol then a SMG, and Stocked Pistols have never been a good substitute for SMGs (but thats in a military context and theres that GO TO WAR vs GO TO THE MALL thing. So the line is blurring, IF escaping or even confronting the mall active shooter is your worst case scenario, then the Glock PDW seems near perfect BUT if travelling through riot zones (Baltimore) seems just as likely then something more might be desired.

Where does the Glock PDW fit in the lexicon of small arms?....Well lets see, we generally define a PDW as something more than a pistol but less than a rifle, perhaps the Glock PDW is better defined as more than a pistol but less than a SMG???

A workable compromise between all of those which best fits day-to-day use. The 'go to the mall' criteria over & above the 'go to war' requirement. That'd be how I'd classify it.
What about a riot? If you know it's coming then you should have brought your rifle. It seems to me something like this is a tool to be used to get out of a riot when you're faced with one.
Perhaps the same for an active shooter, odds are good an individual isn't going to have a rifle, subgun, etc, immediately handy, same for a riot. A PDW is likely something you'll have on you and a workable compromise.

WarGoat
05-05-2016, 01:45 PM
I've got a post in the works about this, but for the majority of people I think the SI Glock PDW is the way to go. There are smaller options out there, but they have their own problems.

I think that the Glock PDW / vSBR is something that could be EDC with little effort and discipline.

barnetmill
05-05-2016, 02:12 PM
In other lands machine pistols always did have a following. Since the laws of the land have prevented me from owning and playing with them I am not really so set against them. I do have a curiosity about them. It appears on paper not so difficult to make a G18 conversion kit to slip in the back plate of a G17. But I am way too chicken to try it and full auto fire would certainly be heard by the neighbors.


M1932 / M712 Schnellfeuer

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Mauser_Schnellfeuer.jpg/220px-Mauser_Schnellfeuer.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mauser_Schnellfeuer.jpg)


Mauser M712 Schnellfeuer


The Spanish gunmaking firms of Beistegui Hermanos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beistegui_Hermanos) and Astra (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra-Unceta_y_Cia_SA) began producing detachable magazine-fed, select-fire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Select-fire) versions of the C96 in 1927 and 1928 respectively, intended for export to the Far East.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_C96#cite_note-1896mauser.com-6)
Mauser began production of the Schnellfeuer ("Fast Fire"), their own select-fire, detachable magazine version of the M30 designed by Karl Westinger. Production started in 1932 and ended in 1936,[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_C96#cite_note-1896mauser.com-6) which has led to its unofficial designation of "M1932" by collectors. An extremely successful design, around 98,000 guns were made overall and they had their own series of serial numbers.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_C96#cite_note-forgottenweapons.com-19)
It was largely intended for export to South America and China or to the opposing sides in the later Spanish Civil War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War). Small numbers of M1932s were also supplied to the German Wehrmacht (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht) during World War II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II), who designated it the M712.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_C96#cite_note-1896mauser.com-6)


The russians even after WWII did make a machine pistol in 9mm makarov. The point being that there was a desire for such weapons even into recent times. Both Beretta and Glock still make them. below the Stechkin automatic pistol
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Stechkin_APS.jpg/1280px-Stechkin_APS.jpg

DogDoc
05-05-2016, 03:42 PM
Gabe is building me a G20 w/ a 1 MoA RMR. I'm gonna put a 9x25 Dillon barrel in it and slap on an Endo/Kak combo. Mooohooah-ha-ha. :firedevil:
One could also do a 460 Rowland with a G21 upper.

So I suppose we could add "Much more powerful calibers available" to the Glock PDW column compared to SMGs.

Doc

Scottman
05-05-2016, 05:17 PM
which 9x25 dillon barrel are you going to go with? I was going to oder the 9" one this weekend when I get time

DogDoc
05-05-2016, 05:20 PM
which 9x25 dillon barrel are you going to go with? I was going to oder the 9" one this weekend when I get time

KKM maxes at 6" I believe. Lone Wolf makes a 9" but I wouldn't recommend their stuff.

Doc

Scottman
05-05-2016, 06:04 PM
got ya. I'll go with the LW and test it. Let me know how the KKM barrel does

Mike Heckathorn
05-05-2016, 07:54 PM
got ya. I'll go with the LW and test it. Let me know how the KKM barrel does

You're a braver man than I.

DogDoc
05-05-2016, 09:08 PM
got ya. I'll go with the LW and test it. Let me know how the KKM barrel does

The KKM are good to go. I've had a few over the years. The LW have had some really poor press particularly here on WT.

Doc

jlwilliams
05-06-2016, 03:55 AM
While we're on the subject... imagine also that the silly "ap" pistol ammo ban were not an issue. A magazine full of THV bullets expands the range of situations that a pistol can cover. Most of the metal piercing bullets out there are better at punching holes in metal and lousy at destroying flesh, but there are some conceivable situations where a hole puncher maybe what fits the bill. The THV bullet is a funny looking brass thing that has a good balance of penetration and flesh damage, but silly feel-good laws keep the "off the street." I think that bad guys with body armor are a good argument for that sort of ammo, but what do I know. Face shots are the best bet on the table. I'd just like to see more options and less stupid restrictions.

EDELWEISS
05-06-2016, 06:19 AM
I like the Glock PDW and I like SMGs (for our purposes SBRd PCCs and AR pistols etc). They each have a place. I think SMGs have a bigger "spectrum of use" especially when they can be much smaller than a Glock PDW (but NOT lighter...) The Glock has the advantage of being Non-NFA, making travel easier.

If I have any issue with the Glock PDW, its because of its size and its "fixed" nature. Yes I know the Endo/Shockwave unit can be removed and "attached" when needed; but its a multi step operation, not something Id want to do under stress (if there was a better option). Id love to see a Glock with a Vz61 Skorpion type wire stock (yes a SBR) OR a brace that didnt rely on a AR buffer tube---but those are just mental mechanics at this time the Glock PDW does exist!

The Glock PDW is easy to carry because its lighter than any other option, so what it gives up in length, it takes back in weight. The difference between say a Glock PDW vs a Mac 10, especially once you add STEn gun mags vs G18 mags IS NOTICEABLE. For Go To Mall missions the Glock wins. Im not so sure it wins at home for Bump in the Night OPs.....but thats another thing.

I do like the Glock PDW concept. Id like to see it get even better with a folding mechanism and a thinner "stock tube". Both seem sooooo easily possible........

DogDoc
05-06-2016, 07:42 AM
I like the Glock PDW and I like SMGs (for our purposes SBRd PCCs and AR pistols etc). They each have a place. I think SMGs have a bigger "spectrum of use" especially when they can be much smaller than a Glock PDW (but NOT lighter...) The Glock has the advantage of being Non-NFA, making travel easier.

If I have any issue with the Glock PDW, its because of its size and its "fixed" nature. Yes I know the Endo/Shockwave unit can be removed and "attached" when needed; but its a multi step operation, not something Id want to do under stress (if there was a better option). Id love to see a Glock with a Vz61 Skorpion type wire stock (yes a SBR) OR a brace that didnt rely on a AR buffer tube---but those are just mental mechanics at this time the Glock PDW does exist!

The Glock PDW is easy to carry because its lighter than any other option, so what it gives up in length, it takes back in weight. The difference between say a Glock PDW vs a Mac 10, especially once you add STEn gun mags vs G18 mags IS NOTICEABLE. For Go To Mall missions the Glock wins. Im not so sure it wins at home for Bump in the Night OPs.....but thats another thing.

I do like the Glock PDW concept. Id like to see it get even better with a folding mechanism and a thinner "stock tube". Both seem sooooo easily possible........

Brent was fiddling with a folder on his PDW (from MDTAC). They run about $129 which is steep for the application. I wonder if he's still using it or what the final verdict was.

48115

I just ordered an AK folding stock adaptor from UTG that looks like it might work. For less than $20 I figure it's worth a try. I'll let you know.

48116

Just bought on of these too. It was about $125. I'm guessing it'll be better than the cheap one. If the cheapo is good to go, I'll put this one on my bolt rifle.

48117



Doc

DutchV
05-06-2016, 07:46 AM
The KKM are good to go. I've had a few over the years. The LW have had some really poor press particularly here on WT.

Doc

Is this special order? Don't see it on their site.

DogDoc
05-06-2016, 07:50 AM
Is this special order? Don't see it on their site.

They have them in stock. You have to call them though.

Doc

DutchV
05-06-2016, 08:14 AM
They have them in stock. You have to call them though.

Doc


That works, thanks.

EDELWEISS
05-06-2016, 08:34 AM
Brent was fiddling with a folder on his PDW .....

As I see it the folder's drawbacks are cost, weight, and substituting "bulk" for length. COST is something we pay for what we want and generally a factor of quality. Adding WEIGHT begins to make other options tenable. BULK is the trade off. As long as we are forced to use AR buffer tubes, instead of a flat brace, bulk becomes a issue.

DogDoc
05-06-2016, 09:00 AM
As I see it the folder's drawbacks are cost, weight, and substituting "bulk" for length. COST is something we pay for what we want and generally a factor of quality. Adding WEIGHT begins to make other options tenable. BULK is the trade off. As long as we are forced to use AR buffer tubes, instead of a flat brace, bulk becomes a issue.

As long as we need the KAK Blade and Endo to make it non-NFA, I don't see getting away from the buffer tube. The tubes themselves are as light or lighter than anything we'd replace them with that would work with a KAK/Endo set up. Bulk is the only real issue IMO.

Ditching the buffer tube would require a whole new animal. I wonder if Paper Shredder is still fiddling with his grip version.

Doc

Brent Yamamoto
05-06-2016, 09:11 AM
Doc and Edel, the folder from MDTAC is good. It's a little spendy for this application, but it's solid. It's heavier than I'd like, but it's not bad. A folder isn't for everyone on this application but it fits my needs.

I would be interested in how other folders perform though.

DutchV
05-06-2016, 09:13 AM
Looks like malls are also occasionally war zones: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/06/suspect-on-loose-after-3-shot-at-maryland-mall-police-say.html

EDELWEISS
05-06-2016, 09:44 AM
As long as we need the KAK Blade and Endo to make it non-NFA....

We DON'T need them anymore than we need the SIG brace. What we need is a brace; just like the Shockwave redefined the brace, so too could a flat "tube" redefine the AR buffer tube. Im picturing the SIG MPX stock only without the stock and with a flat Shockwave. Yep it doesnt exist but neither did the Shockwave until it did....

EDELWEISS
05-06-2016, 09:49 AM
Looks like malls are also occasionally war zones: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/06/suspect-on-loose-after-3-shot-at-maryland-mall-police-say.html


Suspect on the loose after 3 shot at Maryland mall, police say

Yep its a war zone out here. Im stuck working north of Baltimore and that Mall is just minutes from HeadShrinkHers office.... It makes a PDW more and more and everyday fashion accessory

USMC1302Colt
08-06-2016, 05:30 PM
I have recently considered this question myself. I was looking for a compact, easily concealed and securely stored truck gun. I wanted something with greater capacity than the RMR equipped Glock 19 MOS I carry on my person. Of course, I'm most amenable to rifles and one of my Arsenal SLR-107s in folded form would be great for a truck gun, except that I had no way to securely store it in the pick up highly concealed without purchasing a very expensive rear under seat vault (at least one that I would be comfortable with storing a firearm/s in and leaving the truck unattended).

As it is set up right now, my pick up has a factory vault under the front seat that is very well integrated, secured, and concealed. The vault is large enough to hold 2 full size pistols in holsters and extra mags for both. I looked very closely at Gabe's PDW kit for my Glock 17. Even with a folder, It would not fit in the vault I was working with. While I had considered and had considerable interest in the CZ Scorpion Evo 3 S1 pistol with a folding arm brace kit installed, it also would not fit into my under seat vault (assessing 9mm caliber SMG descendants as viable options).

Enter the IWI Uzi Pro SB. I'll be honest, the Uzi Pros were not really on my radar (The Galil Ace Rifles from IWI definitely are though!). I had interest in them as I admire Israeli weapon design as well as weapons with a military pedigree (I do have a Tavor in my bull pup collection as well), but it wasn't on my list of must have weapons to buy in short order. That is, however, until I handled one in a local gun shop. As soon as I picked it up, I was instantly attracted to it. It felt extremely solid and the folding mechanism for the arm brace impressed me with it's sturdy welded construction. Additionally, when folded the whole system is less than 12" in length. The whole package radiated with quality, robust construction, and an obvious military lineage. I had handled and shot Uzi's before, but they were full auto pistols without stocks, and except under very specific mission requirements were fun, but hardly practical. A stock or arm brace makes all the difference for control and accuracy.

I found the weapon to be very handy, effective, and deadly out to 50m. I added an Insight MRDS that I had laying around, and I replaced the SB arm brace with a Shockwave Blade stabilizer. In folded form, I can fit the Uzi Pro, a full size pistol, and extra magazines for both weapons in my under seat vault. I live and work in a rural agricultural area and I work out of my pick up, so I carry a lot of tools and equipment so space in the cab can be at a premium. If away from the truck, I will utilize the Glock 19 for defensive and offensive purposes and to ensure a safe return to the truck. I view the Uzi as essentially a get home gun.

I may still pick up one the PDW kits to try out and maybe even the hardcore rear under seat vault that would carry multiple rifles, mags and ammunition. We will see.

Clawalex
08-07-2016, 12:02 AM
[QUOTE=DogDoc;1800433]Gabe is building me a G20 w/ a 1 MoA RMR. I'm gonna put a 9x25 Dillon barrel in it and slap on an Endo/Kak combo. Mooohooah-ha-ha. :firedevil:
One could also do a 460 Rowland with a G21 upper.

So I suppose we could add "Much more powerful calibers available" to the Glock PDW column compared to SMGs.

II will be molding a endo to work with my gen 4 21 with the 460 long slide I'm building in a few weeks.

USMC1302Colt
08-13-2016, 09:06 AM
Here's a picture of the girl. There's just something appealing about a modernized version of a simple, rugged and combat tested weapon system. Modernizing the Uzi, is in the same vein as modernizing the AK platform, a simple, rugged and combat tested weapon system. I'm not an AK "purist," who is afraid of improving the ergonomics and combat effectiveness of the AK weapon system. In fact, I believe it necessity to constantly improve, because that is how you adapt, overcome and win.

49228

GemJedi
08-13-2016, 11:31 AM
The Uzi works, and I like battle tested also. It would not work for me though because the Uzi is a named assault weapon under my town's administrative code. So getting pulled over could potentially get me a violation. Minor I suppose for a pirate. But my Illinois concealed carry permit would not cover the Uzi as it is considered a rifle. Rifles can only be transported unloaded under Illinois law. That is part of the criminal law. So even if I am a pirate, is adds an unnecessary risk when the Glock is also battle tested by police across the country.

I am in final stage of assembling my G17 PDW and will post a pic when done.

USMC1302Colt
12-13-2016, 06:17 AM
Quick update. I have been running an MPX along side the Uzi wringing both of them out. Despite being much more expensive, the MPX has had some reliability problems (~35 stoppages in 500rds). The Uzi sings like a sewing machine! No issues. One thing I absolutely hate about the Uzi is the grip safety. On the neutered version of the weapon system the spring tension is way too heavy and the safety is unnecessary because there's also a thumb safety. Easy fix, however, with a small zip tie to permanently disable the grip safety altogether. I have confidence in the Uzi, I'm still evaluating the MPX.

Gabriel Suarez
12-13-2016, 06:27 AM
There is nothing on earth that an UZI or an MPX will do that a Glock PDW will not do just as good. Nothing!

The only reason to get one of those is that you simply want one...which is cool...but not because it is better or easier to use or anything. And for practicality and efficiency, the PDW blows the fat little Israeli girl right off the tracks.

USMC1302Colt
12-20-2016, 05:57 AM
[QUOTE=Gabriel Suarez;1842629]There is nothing on earth that an UZI or an MPX will do that a Glock PDW will not do just as good. Nothing!

The only reason to get one of those is that you simply want one...which is cool...but not because it is better or easier to use or anything. And for practicality and efficiency, the PDW blows the fat little Israeli girl right off the tracks.= quote]

I'm not arguing your point at all. On a cost efficiency scale, the Glock PDW is king.

I have an affinity for small arms and thus the reason for owning Uzis, MPXs, and Glocks. As Americans we have freedom and ability rivaled no where else on the earth.

CaptBeach
12-20-2016, 08:24 AM
3 round burst baby...

Gabriel Suarez
12-20-2016, 08:34 AM
3 round burst baby...


Yeah...but not THAT one.

Gabriel Suarez
12-20-2016, 08:35 AM
https://youtu.be/3zFSJ_QpNbY

EDELWEISS
12-20-2016, 12:09 PM
Gabe now that you've SBRd your Glock PDW (I know youve said you did it just to test shoulder VS "cheek braced" fire);have you noticed an advantage? I ask because Im certainly not opposed to adding another SBR, and once SBRd other stock options would be available. Picture a Vz61, or a Micro UZI type stock OR even something better. Yes being NFA means travel restrictions; but when travelling a NON-NFA Glock PDW can be packed.

These are just some pics I pulled from the net. Some maybe all of them might be junk(IDK?); but they seem to offer some advantages for a SBRd Glock as a PDW.
50828

50829

50830

50831

50832

50833

50834

Thoughts?

Gabriel Suarez
12-20-2016, 12:17 PM
No cheekweld makes it far less useable. See how i am using it. The cheekweld is a big deal.

EDELWEISS
12-20-2016, 01:02 PM
No cheekweld makes it far less useable. See how i am using it. The cheekweld is a big deal.

Is the cheek weld more important than shoulder contact? What if the was a quality stock design that allowed both with a NFA gun?

Gabriel Suarez
12-20-2016, 01:13 PM
I think equally important. The Germans and Russians don't seem to understand what a cheekweld is and are thus not as good as Americans are in terms of marksmanship. Honestly I don't know what everyone has against the Endo/Shockwave. If it cost any less Tapco would f*cking make it.

EDELWEISS
12-20-2016, 02:15 PM
Its NOT the cost. I think a stock that folded or collapsed that was thinner would be even better. The Endo/Shockwave is great, youve convinced me and Lord knows I have a butt load of SMGs/PCCs I could grab--none of them can beat the Glock PDW for weight; but something that didnt require a buffer tube would be thinner and fold flatter.

Imagine a Shockwave that was flat because it didnt have to fit over the buffer tube. If you could swap a flat "rod" for the buffer tube, you could slim the folded width by 2/3s and you might even be able to have an adapter that allowed access to the safety and mag release--just thinking how to make it even better than it already is...

Gabriel Suarez
12-20-2016, 02:33 PM
Dont let me stop you from making it...but its hard enough keeping these in stock.



Its NOT the cost. I think a stock that folded or collapsed that was thinner would be even better. The Endo/Shockwave is great, youve convinced me and Lord knows I have a butt load of SMGs/PCCs I could grab--none of them can beat the Glock PDW for weight; but something that didnt require a buffer tube would be thinner and fold flatter.

Imagine a Shockwave that was flat because it didnt have to fit over the buffer tube. If you could swap a flat "rod" for the buffer tube, you could slim the folded width by 2/3s and you might even be able to have an adapter that allowed access to the safety and mag release--just thinking how to make it even better than it already is...

Pict
12-20-2016, 02:53 PM
I own an AR 9mm pistol with a Shockwave brace. IMO the Glock PDW, with an RMR, outclasses it in terms of portability, hands down. Without the RMR, I'd rather have the AR pistol or other 9mm carbine. That's just me, YMMV.

Paper Shredder
12-20-2016, 07:33 PM
Its NOT the cost. I think a stock that folded or collapsed that was thinner would be even better. The Endo/Shockwave is great, youve convinced me and Lord knows I have a butt load of SMGs/PCCs I could grab--none of them can beat the Glock PDW for weight; but something that didnt require a buffer tube would be thinner and fold flatter.

Imagine a Shockwave that was flat because it didnt have to fit over the buffer tube. If you could swap a flat "rod" for the buffer tube, you could slim the folded width by 2/3s and you might even be able to have an adapter that allowed access to the safety and mag release--just thinking how to make it even better than it already is...

Seems like we always revisit this around the holidays... haha maybe I'll find time next week to tinker!