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Brent Yamamoto
01-04-2016, 11:42 PM
The stocked Glock is a game changer and instantly makes virtually all pistol caliber carbine is obsolete. It may not be as sexy as the MPX or as Klingon cool as the Uzi, but it's smaller, lighter, handier, and more economical.

In short, it has more WIN than a Charlie Sheen interview.

The one thing that could possibly make it more useful is to fold into a smaller package. The folding stocked Glock may not be for everyone, but for rifle-accurate shots in the smallest possible package, this is it.

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The folder is from Modular Driven Technologies. At $129 it's not cheap, but it certainly less money than the Law Tactical (which would be overkill for this project in any event). I'm sure there are less expensive alternatives but this one looked like the best quality I could find.

The folder itself feels solid and is actually more trim and looks better than I expected. Total length is 1.75", width is just under 2". According to my scale, it is 6 1/8 ounces. It's a solid chunk of metal. Lock up is tight and has no play. The button is quite stiff and takes a good amount of pressure to unlock, so I have absolutely no concern about this folding by accident; unlocking it requires a very deliberate effort. It also takes a sharp snap to lock it closed. The hinge is solid and very smooth, which is excellent. However, it does not lock in the folded position and there is no friction in the hinge (it's floppy when it's not locked). Perhaps the unit can be modified somehow to provide some additional friction or even lock while folded, a hugely valuable improvement IMO.

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Total length of this gun while folded is just under 16". A Glock 17 would measure just over 13 1/2". Total weight of this gun, with a loaded 15 round 357 Sig magazine, is 3 pounds 11 1/4 oz.

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The good part: yes it easily fits in a standard laptop bag, with room to spare (and keep in mind this is a G35 with a longish compensator).

The bad part: The weight of the folder negatively impacts the balance of this gun. Without the folder, the Glock/Endo/Shockwave combo is handy, light, and dare I say elegant. One handed, it is as usable as a naked pistol. But adding the 6 ounce folder makes the weapon relatively ass heavy and ungainly. Is it heavy? No, it's still lighter then any rifle I own...it is just unbalanced and does not have the same elegant feel. It is still usable one-handed, it's just not as natural. (This may not be terribly important but it is worth noting.)

Perhaps I'm too nitpicky. After all, the gun is still less than 4 pounds and is still INCREDIBLY handy. I have just been enjoying the elegance of the gun so much that the now ungainly feel is disappointing. If it is worth it to me to keep this as a folder, I will get over it.

Am I sold on this concept? Not 100%. If the folder was lighter, if it locked in place or at least had enough friction to limit movement, I think this would be a homerun. But, although it's not as elegant as I had hoped, it DOES accomplish the goal of getting the stocked glock to easily fit in a lap top bag.

More pics to come. Let me know what you think.

Brent Yamamoto
01-05-2016, 12:20 AM
The geometry of the folder does not allow the brace to fold parallel with the gun.
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Although not aesthetically pleasing, this is not a bad thing. It leaves plenty of room to grasp the pistol grip. It's too bad that the folder does not lock open, because the gun actually balances quite well in the folded position. While I wouldn't be keen to fire the gun in this manner, there might be circumstances where it is useful. As it is, I wouldn't do so because the stock swings free and could throw your shot.
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Adding the 4oz Streamlight helps balance the gun. It's still under 4 lbs!
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This gun is 23 1/2". The folder adds 1 3/4", and the brace could of course be adjusted longer if you want additional eye relief. With the folder it really doesn't matter how long you adjust the brace.
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Tightening the folder to the Endo requires a large Allen key. I can't believe I actually had this one on hand.
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Brent Yamamoto
01-05-2016, 12:24 AM
A few more pics of the folder

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Pict
01-05-2016, 05:19 AM
Excellent project. This is truly a leap in the evolution of the long range capable handgun. Back in the day I had the opportunity to spend some quality range time with a an artillery model Luger and a C96 Mauser, with their original wooden stocks. The results were a mixed bag at long range. The added points of contact helped but the system was handicapped due to the sights being too close to the eye. I found a supported position without the stock was actually easier to hit with at long range than to use the stock unsupported. The RMR changes that entirely and brings this system into its own.

Many of the original stocked pistols used a tangent rear sight allowing for adjustments in range. This was a good idea in theory but it put the open U notch too cose to the eye for a precision sight picture and it was an irritating hinderance. I would like to see a rear sight with an open U notch for use as a pistol and a flip up apeture sighted for 100 meters for use with the stock. It would probably require a taller supressor front sight but such a rear sight would be a good back up to the RMR and a low cost option to convert any non-RMR Glock to this configuration.

DireWolf
01-05-2016, 05:41 AM
Brent-

You are the man.

Excellent write-up and photos.

CR Williams
01-05-2016, 05:53 AM
I'm comparing this in my mind to a system I have, a Masterpiece Arms 30DMG with a KAK shockwave on a folding buffer tube. The Glock system is narrower and more elegant in form and offers more options for caliber choice by changing barrels and mags and perhaps the extractor. The 30DMG is a couple of inches shorter with brace extended and about the same length folded but wider across. It will fit in a laptop bag like the this Glock system does. The 30DMG offers more options for optics due to having a rail on top and the folder does lock closed. It still feels awkward firing one-handed but probably is easier to do that than the Glock because it does lock closed.

Both systems offer interesting things to someone who is willing to work with them to explore their potential. I rate the Glock system as superior because you can run .357Sig in it. Nearest I could do with the 30DMG would be to load +P+. But then I wouldn't have a reason to get a G35, would I?

Brent: What is the overall cost of the system as it is set up so far?

bassbones
01-05-2016, 05:55 AM
I've got a cheap UTG folder meant for AK to AR stock conversions waiting for my pistol buffer tube to get here. Not as elegant or sturdy, but we are on the same page.

JB

Housertl
01-05-2016, 06:11 AM
Brent, How do you think the MDT folder compares to the idea of the ACE AR-15 Compact Receiver Block/push button folding mechanism/pig nose combination? The cost would be about the same, likely the weight and additional length would be as well, but it would lock while folded. Would that be worth the effort of the cludge?

Brent Yamamoto
01-05-2016, 06:47 AM
Brent: What is the overall cost of the system as it is set up so far?

I purchased the gun a while back so I forget so approximately...
G35: $600ish
Docter:$400ish (Budget $500-600 for RMR)
SI slide milling: $200
SI trigger: $125
KKM barrel: $$125
Endo: $35
Shockwave and tube: $80
MDT folder: $129

Its not a cheap project but I had built the gun awhile back anyway. The stock components are very reasonable. Another great thing is that you can upgrade the Glock over time, no need to do it all at once.

As for other folding mechanisms...I did look at the ACE but for some reason I decided against it (don't recall why now). But I would love to see someone try it for comparison. Ditto for other systems. The MDT is a solid piece of kit, good quality, but relatively heavy and locking would be better.

Gabriel Suarez
01-05-2016, 07:16 AM
Excellent work Brent!!

ss58
01-05-2016, 07:19 AM
Thanks. Answered a lot of my questions.

R. Lafayette
01-05-2016, 07:26 AM
I was told that the very best firearms and tactical info could be found on this forum. Man, I was not lied to...

EDELWEISS
01-05-2016, 07:43 AM
Great IDEA! Not having it in my hand, Im not sure I see the negative part about it not locking in the folded position. Im thinking not locking means its FASTER to deploy once out of the bag (no fiddling with a release); but again you have it in your hands and I only have pics.

On another note do you still think the muzzle brake on the 357SIG barrel is necessary with this set up VS just as an "un-enhanced" pistol?





Ive been looking at these Endo / Glock combos and keep thinking they need a front grip. Some ponderings are the magazine base that allows the mag to clip on the pistol rail or perhaps something like a Beretta 93R enlarged trigger guard and folding grip. YES I KNOW a second grip would be an NFA issue; but Im still pondering if it might be worth the effort?

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Brent Yamamoto
01-05-2016, 08:47 AM
Great IDEA! Not having it in my hand, Im not sure I see the negative part about it not locking in the folded position. Im thinking not locking means its FASTER to deploy once out of the bag (no fiddling with a release);
Fair point and you are right, it's faster to deploy (it's not a flaw, it's a feature!). I just don't like floppy because it usually seems to open the door for Murphy. But this is a very specialized tool and I think we can accept certain characteristics we wouldn't in other platforms. For this particular project, the priority was to fit in a bag, so floppy is a minor concern and indeed may be a benefit.

On another note do you still think the muzzle brake on the 357SIG barrel is necessary with this set up VS just as an "un-enhanced" pistol?
I need to test this but no, in this configuration it's not necessary and indeed might be better without the brake (there's significant blast/noise). With the brace, overall it may be more comfortable to shoot without the brake. I'll test it but I still intend to leave the brake in place because it is a huge benefit for shooting without the brace. Muzzle climb is significant with the velocity this long barrel provides and the brake totally mitigates it. And it looks kinda Han Solo so I like that. (Though with the brace it looks awfully Boba Fett.)


Ive been looking at these Endo / Glock combos and keep thinking they need a front grip. Some ponderings are the magazine base that allows the mag to clip on the pistol rail or perhaps something like a Beretta 93R enlarged trigger guard and folding grip. YES I KNOW a second grip would be an NFA issue; but Im still pondering if it might be worth the effort?


Front grip - personally I think no. I like how it feels gripping the pistol as normal. Also with the flex in the Glock frame, I think this would negatively impact accuracy (which is kinda the whole point of the brace). Handling-wise I think this would make the gun less wieldy, and it's not like controllability is an issue that would require a VFG. And finally the mag VFG seems not very sturdy. (Boy am I raining on that parade!)

The concept here is a gun in a bag. As such, the extra mags are stowed in the bag and there's no need to mount them on board.

Now if the stocked Glock is your bedside gun, or you leave it accessible in your vehicle, THEN stowing some mags on the brace makes some sense. But in that case you wouldn't need the folder.

bassbones
01-05-2016, 09:11 AM
a surefire x300 makes a good "forearm" like item keeping in mind where the muzzle is.........

JB

Brent Yamamoto
01-05-2016, 11:06 AM
a surefire x300 makes a good "forearm" like item keeping in mind where the muzzle is.........

JB

True but I think this is less of an issue on this gun because we train to hold the pistol two-handed. With a pistol the support hand never goes anywhere besides the pistol grip. It's more of an issue with a short barrel rifle where our support hand "floats".

Greg Nichols
01-05-2016, 11:21 AM
Nice job bro. I totally see one of these in my future.

EDELWEISS
01-05-2016, 11:43 AM
Front grip - personally I think no.....(Boy am I raining on that parade!)

The concept here is a gun in a bag. As such, the extra mags are stowed in the bag and there's no need to mount them on board.

Now if the stocked Glock is your bedside gun, or you leave it accessible in your vehicle, THEN stowing some mags on the brace makes some sense. But in that case you wouldn't need the folder.

Bro, rain IS rain. It needs to be wet for it to work. Im not upset by the facts, although I dooooo wish I had a 93R even if it was semi only... but that's another story.

Re the mags in the bag I get that too. Another one of those ponderings was a way to use a G18 mag instead of the buffer tube OR at least a way to run a G18 (or smaller) mag horizontal alongside the buffer tube BTW that idea started with 556 AR Pistols and transferred to the 9mm AR, so its nothing new to meeeeee,

Sgt. Psycho
01-05-2016, 11:59 AM
A small bungee cord, or a strip of nylon, cut to an appropriate length, with a velcro or other type of fastener to attach the ends might be useful to secure the brace in the open position. A smaller cord/strap permanently attached to the plastic back part of the brace, again with a means to secure it to or around the front part of the brace, might work too. The effort to solve this would depend on how important keeping the open stock from moving would be to the user.

Yondering
01-05-2016, 12:14 PM
Nice work Brent! I think any experimentation with this stuff is useful, whether the end result is what you want or not. I may be able to stiffen that folding mechanism if you want; I'll take a look next time.

I agree on the regular pistol grip hold, rather than a flashlight or foregrip for the left hand. I think this works best remembering that it's a braced pistol, not a carbine conversion. I haven't tried it with the Endo, but in the limited opportunity I had to shoot a Glock with a foregrip a while back, I found it remarkably less useful than I expected. The front of the Glock frame flexed a lot, and it was pretty easy to put enough pressure on it to cause malfunctions.

I'm also not excited about the ideas of a G18 mag as a brace or stock (or foregrip), mainly because the configuration changes when you reload with that mag. Not sure I see the point there.

Gabriel Suarez
01-05-2016, 12:20 PM
I found a folding unit that may do what we want. I am also looking at the offering of the Endo, Shockwave, and Tube...along with folding unit as a kit product. More to follow soon.

EDELWEISS
01-05-2016, 12:39 PM
I found a folding unit that may do what we want. I am also looking at the offering of the Endo, Shockwave, and Tube...along with folding unit as a kit product. More to follow soon.

Yessssss

Gabriel Suarez
01-05-2016, 01:06 PM
So...I may be able to work a deal with these guys for:

Endo-Shock and Tube - approx $75
With folder capability - approx $150

Big cost is the folding unit.

Brent Yamamoto
01-05-2016, 01:17 PM
That's a great deal compared to buying the parts separately!

ss58
01-05-2016, 01:20 PM
I'm in for a folding unit if a head count is in order

EDELWEISS
01-05-2016, 01:27 PM
Yep Ill take a the folding package Endo, Shockwave, tube and folding mechanism

Gabriel Suarez
01-05-2016, 01:57 PM
OK...give me a few days to test the folding unit first and then to solidify the deals with these guys for numbers.

apamburn
01-05-2016, 02:32 PM
Non-folding package for me.

DaveJames
01-05-2016, 03:13 PM
Damn if I don't like that set up, when talking about the balance, I wonder if a solid slide would help even out the butt heavy feel

Brent Yamamoto
01-05-2016, 03:21 PM
A solid slide wouldn't hurt. That's my one wish for that G35...I don't like the hole in the top.

Gabriel Suarez
01-05-2016, 03:22 PM
OUR 34 and 35 slides will have solid tops.

Yondering
01-05-2016, 03:26 PM
Endo-Shock and Tube - approx $75


I'm in for this, even if the cost is a bit higher, I want another one.

I'm not completely sold on the folder yet, but keeping an open mind.

WinstonSmith
01-05-2016, 04:14 PM
They need one for the G19 size frames.

DDS
01-05-2016, 10:20 PM
Do you think a NPE holster attached to the folding brace would allow a round to be chambered and hold the brace in the folded position?

Greg Nichols
01-05-2016, 10:33 PM
High that's good, with the snap I take ii?

Ted Demosthenes
01-06-2016, 12:44 AM
I found a folding unit that may do what we want. I am also looking at the offering of the Endo, Shockwave, and Tube...along with folding unit as a kit product. More to follow soon.

Put my name on the pre-buy list Boss. [emoji106]

Ted Demosthenes
01-06-2016, 12:48 AM
Do you think a NPE holster attached to the folding brace would allow a round to be chambered and hold the brace in the folded position?

Yeah, or a similar simple setup.

Ted Demosthenes
01-06-2016, 12:53 AM
Very nice job Sensei. I'm also thinkin' of a way to secure it to the outside of a backpack for tactical open carry- like done with machetes.

Scottman
01-06-2016, 12:27 PM
Count me interested in a buy

jesselp
01-06-2016, 12:33 PM
I'm sure the State of NY would hate for me to have something like this.

That, of course, just makes me want it more!

DogDoc
01-06-2016, 12:38 PM
I'll pre-buy that package too Gabe.

Doc

Mike O'Leary
01-06-2016, 01:02 PM
I will buy one as soon as they are ready!

tmbk2
01-07-2016, 05:58 PM
I'm so in on this! Thanks for the R&D work Brent and Gabe. Put me down for a folder unit. -Cheers

JD Lester
01-07-2016, 06:30 PM
Nicely done Brent.

v/r

JD

gmorgan
01-13-2016, 04:54 AM
TFI

EDELWEISS
01-13-2016, 07:21 AM
I'm sure the State of NY would hate for me to have something like this.

That, of course, just makes me want it more!

Can you legally own the Glock? Whats the NY mag limit? You might be better off with a NOT stock (that is held on by grip alone) and what ever pistol best fits your mag limit....its not a stock if it doesnt attach...

jesselp
01-13-2016, 09:00 AM
Can you legally own the Glock? Whats the NY mag limit? You might be better off with a NOT stock (that is held on by grip alone) and what ever pistol best fits your mag limit....its not a stock if it doesnt attach...

Glock's of all generations are indeed legal, but limited to ten round magazines.

Gabriel Suarez
01-13-2016, 09:26 AM
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Greg Nichols
01-13-2016, 09:33 AM
well.... that looks suspiciously like a 1911 prototype milled for an RMR.

John Chambers
01-13-2016, 09:41 AM
"This is not the slide you are looking for..."

Brent Yamamoto
01-13-2016, 11:05 AM
well.... that looks suspiciously like a 1911 prototype milled for an RMR.

Cat peeking out of the bag

Greg Nichols
01-13-2016, 01:22 PM
Cat peeking out of the bag
Love those sneaky pussies

Brent Yamamoto
01-13-2016, 02:31 PM
Gabe, how are you liking the set up with the new folder?

I knew I liked the system as soon as I picked it up. I think it's even more useful, at least for specific applications, with the folder.

Your folder looks lighter than mine (a good thing!). Does it lock in the folder position? I'm not convinced that locking is necessary but it seems like a nice to have.

Gabriel Suarez
01-13-2016, 03:35 PM
https://www.facebook.com/TheSuarezGroup/videos/884449838337420/

blastjv
01-13-2016, 07:09 PM
What are your thoughts on the ETS mags so far, Gabe?

Gabriel Suarez
01-13-2016, 07:23 PM
They work great. Write up coming.

Yondering
01-22-2016, 09:48 PM
I found a folding unit that may do what we want. I am also looking at the offering of the Endo, Shockwave, and Tube...along with folding unit as a kit product. More to follow soon.

Gabe, is this still in the works? I want another, if you're working on a kit I'll wait, otherwise I'll order on my own.

Thanks!

Yondering
01-22-2016, 09:54 PM
I found a folding unit that may do what we want. I am also looking at the offering of the Endo, Shockwave, and Tube...along with folding unit as a kit product. More to follow soon.

Gabe, is this still in the works? I want another, if you're working on a kit I'll wait, otherwise I'll order on my own.

Thanks!

GemJedi
01-24-2016, 07:11 AM
Same here, I am in for a kit when ready. I will wait to see which hinge you zero in on.

SurlyGinger
12-09-2016, 08:07 PM
Has anyone tried the XLR Industries folding adapter? https://xlrindustries.com/products/push-button-folding-adapter

DogDoc
12-10-2016, 12:34 AM
Has anyone tried the XLR Industries folding adapter? https://xlrindustries.com/products/push-button-folding-adapter

That's what I'm using. I have a couple of them on PDWs. Works great.

SurlyGinger
12-10-2016, 03:34 AM
Thanks DogDoc! I will be ordering one this weekend

zekers7
12-11-2016, 12:32 PM
Thanks DogDoc! I will be ordering one this weekend

HERA arms has an adapter too. Its really high quality, has a very positive lock up and holds open. Not discrediting MDT - just saying theres another option.

bassbones
12-11-2016, 03:33 PM
except that the Hera is impossible to find.................

JB