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View Full Version : Comparing Gang unit and DMaX knives?



Shogunater
11-20-2015, 06:27 PM
Out of curiosity, I'm wondering what thoughts are comparing the use of the "Gang Unit" knife and the DMaX knife (based on karambit).

John Chambers
11-20-2015, 08:00 PM
One is a specialized design that borders on a fantasy knife. The other is made for killing and I could hand it to a 12 year old and with 5 minutes of instruction they would understand the concept behind its employment. Just sayin'...

Warped Mindless
11-20-2015, 08:18 PM
One is a specialized design that borders on a fantasy knife. The other is made for killing and I could hand it to a 12 year old and with 5 minutes of instruction they would understand the concept behind its employment. Just sayin'...

Pretty much summed up perfectly.

Shogunater
11-20-2015, 08:40 PM
Can you define what you mean by fantasy knife?

BeardedPelican
11-20-2015, 08:56 PM
Simply put, the Karambit is not a killing blade. It was originally a woman's work knife not a "super secret ninja killyouinasinglestroke" blade. The cultures that conquered the world with their blade skills used simple, straightforward designs. The Gladius is an example of this

Shogunater
11-20-2015, 09:04 PM
Huh...That is the exact opposite of what I've been lead to believe.

What about limb destruction and pressure point control?

John Chambers
11-20-2015, 09:25 PM
The wharncliffe blade will cut more tissue than any other blade design of the same length, and if you are targeting highly specific areas of anatomy with your blade, that same design will destroy more tissue than a ninjakillermagicfleshshreder from Indonesia.

Check out Michael Janich's porkman demos and then get off the couch and train. You will find that a lot of Internet hyberbole is better used as fertilizer than accurate info.

Shogunater
11-20-2015, 09:55 PM
How would you use the Gang Unit in terms of concealed deployment? Would neck knife style work?

John Chambers
11-20-2015, 10:25 PM
I carry mine at 11:00. Neck carry is a way, but I find it moves around too much.

John Chambers
11-20-2015, 10:57 PM
Not to mention, lead time on having Gang Unit on your belt is about 5 days, not 6 to 8 weeks!

John McCreery
11-21-2015, 07:12 AM
Neck knife deployment can be a bit of an issue for speed depending on clothing and situation

Gabriel Suarez
11-21-2015, 07:20 AM
Huh...That is the exact opposite of what I've been lead to believe.

What about limb destruction and pressure point control?

Well how about ass stabbing and throat cutting. How many karambits to you see in a prison knife fight? If I have to resort to a knife I am not interested in controlling pressure points nor attacking limbs. I am interested in stabbing and ripping into soft areas that will bleed and cause shock and death. Its not art...its violence.

Shogunater
11-21-2015, 08:27 AM
Lead time??

Also, do any of these knives preform "defanging the snake" better than another?

glockednlocked
11-21-2015, 09:04 AM
You want to defang a snake go get you some really good needle nose pliers. You want to kill some bastard when he need killing get the G-unit!
Just my humble opinion.

Shogunater
11-21-2015, 09:10 AM
When I have the training to do that, I'd prefer to avoid the mental trauma on my end and the career concerned prosecutor that will probably come after me, if possible.


http://blog.suarezinternational.com/2015/10/number-1-mistake-you-are-making-when-choosing-a-knife-folder-vs-fixed-blade.html


Obviously it won't always work out it the way I'd "prefer it to".

Steve Collins
11-21-2015, 09:51 AM
If you think there's going to be mental anguish on your part, you need to get that crap straightened out in your head and get rid of it with a quickness. Fighting is fighting, regardless of the tool. If there's mental trauma, let it be on your enemies end, not yours. As far as a prosecutor is concerned, that's why we have lawyers. Plus, it's pretty hard to be prosecuted for anything if your dead.

My Gang Unit has been riding next to my belt buckle since I got it, opposite from my Glock in the appendix position. I also carry a Spyderco Emerson Wave Endura, set up of a point down/edge out configuration. In our knife classes, we cut throats and taint stab with extreme violence. I've been in one really bad knife fight; it wasn't pretty, and it damned sure didn't look like something off of TV. It was a bloody mess, and I was glad it was him bleeding and not me. The only 'mental trauma' I would've had would be if I didn't come home from that pisshole I was in 8,000 miles away.

Shogunater
11-21-2015, 10:34 AM
Does this sound right for the points of interest? This is what a friend told me.

1. Thrust to Internal jugular

2. Thrust to external jugular

3. slash to the gut from right to left, palm up.

4. upward thrust into gut behind rib cage.

5. upward thrust to underside of chin, flat side of blade and palm facing you.

6. Groin.

7. Either fermeral artery.

8. thrust to Heart, flat side of blade down.

9. slash throat from left to right.


Also, what kind of dummy do you use?

SheepDog68
11-21-2015, 10:41 AM
Lead time??

Also, do any of these knives preform "defanging the snake" better than another?

If you cut the snakes fucking head off the snakes fangs aren't going to be much of a concern!

Not sure what SI has going as far as knives go but look there and at Michael Janich to get your head wrapped around what you need to know!

SD

ss58
11-21-2015, 10:42 AM
Also, what kind of dummy do you use?

I tend to use the ones stupid enough to fuk with me :dunno:

Shogunater
11-21-2015, 10:44 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSuVlZjx-l0

Shogunater
11-21-2015, 10:55 AM
I was just watching a vid with Janich. The stuff he's teaching looks like "defanging the snake". Given that the trainer he was using didn't look special in any way, I'm guessing that principle is applicable to most knives.

EDELWEISS
11-21-2015, 10:57 AM
How'bout just shoot'em in the face then use a Swiss Army knife or whatever is available to cut off the ear. My knife(s) are used only to free me up to get to my gun. Frankly Im a fan of sharp spikes because they penetrate clothing easier. All I need is a free second to go to guns and another second to get the ear--those things come off like tearing postage stamps off a roll. Just get it stared, you can make it look pretty later before it goes in the kitty litter

Brent Yamamoto
11-21-2015, 11:01 AM
When I have the training to do that, I'd prefer to avoid the mental trauma on my end and the career concerned prosecutor that will probably come after me, if possible.


I don't mean offense but if you're concerned about mental trauma, I suggest that knife fighting is not the right fit for you.

Knife use is visceral. It is wet and squishy. It is NOT for those concerned over mental trauma.

"Defanging the snake" has its merits...but once the knife comes out it is using lethal force. An overzealous prosecutor is unlikely to grasp the difference between the intent of defanging the snake and stabbing to the ground. Also, based on the video you posted, the techniques and strategies advocated there aren't going to win friends and influence people better than any other knife system.

This isn't a criticism of any knife system or training style. Most systems and techniques have merit when applied properly. But most important is having your mind right about what you are doing and when it's appropriate to use it. Badass looking technique is great but an educated mind is better.

It's good that you're asking questions. But keep your bullshit detector on and don't immediately accept something that sounds cool on the internet. Watch, read, listen, and practice. Most important, don't abandon common sense based on cool marketing.

Brent Yamamoto
11-21-2015, 11:11 AM
Suggested study material:

Mind Set (http://www.onesourcetactical.com/mindset-alectureonthethreephasesofthegunfight-dvdbygabrielsuarez.aspx#.VlDBur_CiRM)

Meditations On Violence


(http://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448132935&sr=8-1&keywords=meditations+on+violence)

coastalcop
11-21-2015, 03:05 PM
I've said it before, a stab in the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit most of the time.

That said , most folks don't know they have been stabbed or cut till after the fights over. One of my officers got stabbed in the face last week, the officer thought they got punched . Wasn't till the officer was cuffing the suspect and wondered " where is all this blood coming from?" That folks realized the officer was stabbed. Officer is ok, the plastic surgeon did a good job so It will only be a minor warriors beauty mark when it heals.

When I got cut last time, I didn't feel it till afterwards.

Brent and a few others can make stuff look like crouching tiger hidden dragon. Mine usually look like three stooges with chainsaws ;)

Brent Yamamoto
11-21-2015, 05:43 PM
Brent and a few others can make stuff look like crouching tiger hidden dragon. Mine usually look like three stooges with chainsaws ;)

Three stooges with chainsaws gets the job done! A stab to the taint indeed! (I've considered stealing that one from you Coastalcop!)

On crouching tiger stuff...my view is this. Making it look pretty is not the goal. Making it effective is the goal. But I think we should keep practicing to make it better than effective. Make it smooth, make it balanced, make it relaxed...make it f***ing awesome. Then it will be pretty because it's good.

Pretty techniques do not make good fighting techniques. Good fighting techniques done exceptionally well might be pretty...but pretty is a by-product of good.

SheepDog68
11-21-2015, 05:44 PM
Mine usually look like three stooges with chainsaws ;)

OK I needed a good chuckle so thanks for that!

On another note: If it looks stupid, but works who cares!

SD

H60DoorGunner
11-21-2015, 07:58 PM
Huh...That is the exact opposite of what I've been lead to believe.

What about limb destruction and pressure point control?

What about it? Stab stab stab until they quit moving. Neck, solar plexus, face, and anywhere else that will bleed a lot or incapacitate them.

If you attack them fast enough and hard enough, most people won't be able to do much about it.

coastalcop
11-22-2015, 02:53 PM
Three stooges with chainsaws gets the job done! A stab to the taint indeed! (I've considered stealing that one from you Coastalcop!)

On crouching tiger stuff...my view is this. Making it look pretty is not the goal. Making it effective is the goal. But I think we should keep practicing to make it better than effective. Make it smooth, make it balanced, make it relaxed...make it f***ing awesome. Then it will be pretty because it's good.

Pretty techniques do not make good fighting techniques. Good fighting techniques done exceptionally well might be pretty...but pretty is a by-product of good.

As always Brent you are welcome to it. I was smoother once, then had to get used to fighting in a bat belt and carrier. That and momma didn't name me "grace". ;)

fish78
11-22-2015, 05:45 PM
I've said it before, a stab in the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit most of the time.
Not exactly the taint, but it used to be taught to cut(stab) in the groin on either side of the scrotum and try for the femoral artery...runs shallow there...as does the Brachial artery just above the elbow...a miss in either place is still an effective cut.

W.A.
11-13-2016, 02:08 PM
Not exactly the taint, but it used to be taught to cut(stab) in the groin on either side of the scrotum and try for the femoral artery...runs shallow there...as does the Brachial artery just above the elbow...a miss in either place is still an effective cut.In training, I find that a low backhand strike (think arm's natural extension) to the taint (or groin tendon area) is difficult to defend against.