New rifle!

[H60DoorGunner]

The M4, AK, and FAL etc... are great, and useful tools. But being a bit of a history nerd, my passion lies with MILSURP rifles. My newest addition is this Spanish FR-8.

When the Spanish military was converting from the Mauser, to the then new CETME, they didn't have enough CETME's to go around. This presented a host of problems for them, but efficiency and pragmatism prevailed! They simply rechambered and rebarreled their existing stock of Mausers. Using CETME barrels and sights, and this carbine length Frankenmauser was born.

The Spanish used it as a stopgap training aid, and later armed the Guardia Civil and other police agencies with it. As a result, many of them never saw much use...which is fortunate for collectors like me! This one's barrel has rifling as sharp as the day it left the factory!

A carbine length rifle, chambered in 7.62x51 with rotary sights adjustable from 100 to 400 meters makes for quite a handy rifle!

[Boetman]

I'd love to hunt with one. How is the trigger pull and is it adjustable? Open sight grouping at a hundred? Nice looking with the strutt, is that for barrel stabilizing like the mini14 strutts? Actualy very nice.

[H60DoorGunner]

The trigger has a little slack on the front, but is crisp and fairly light for a military rifle. It isn't adjustable, but many aftermarket Mauser triggers are available. I doubt I'll do anything to this rifle though.

The tube on the bottom is actually for a cleaning kit and bayonet lug. Were the barrel mounted on a CETME, it would house the op-rod. Since this is a bolt action, there is none. I haven't shot this rifle but once as of yet. But it shot 2 in groups at 100m, which is sufficient for anything but a sniper rifle, and roughly typical of most old military rifles. I can't wait to slay some deer and pigs with it! It might just be my new favorite hunting rifle!

Probably my wife will wind up using it to hunt more than I do though. It fits her frame better than my other rifles.

[CaptBeach]

They make awesome donors for a Scout Rifle...been wanting one for a while now...nice find.

[John Chambers]

Very nice! My pop gave me one as a welcome home present back in '07. They buck and roar a bit, but they are great rifles.

[barnetmill]

Most of those guns were not built on '98 mauser actions. .308 civilian ammo has higher pressures the original 7mm chambering. The bigger is not the absence of a 3rd locking lug and gas relief holes, but that the heat treatment of the steel is different. Now if by chance those guns were made with proper metallurgy than a constant diet of hot .308 is ok. My question is why the spanish would rebarrel these gun to 7.62x51. It is possible that some of the CETME 7.61x51 were not loaded as hot civilian as .308. A friend of mine has a '95 Chilean lowe mauser that is rebarreled for .308 and the strength of the action is a question. When I get a round to it I will load him some rounds that at set to 300 savage pressures. The only 7mm mausers that should be rebarreled to .308 are those on '98 actions.
Note: there is some debate whether swedish '96 actions are ok for .308.

If one has a non-'98 mauser, I would reload it with moderate loads and stay away from the max loads.

[John Chambers]

The FR-7 is a 93 pattern, the FR-8 is a 98 pattern. The 98 is fine with all normal .308 and NATO loads.

[H60DoorGunner]

The FR-7 is a 93 pattern, the FR-8 is a 98 pattern. The 98 is fine with all normal .308 and NATO loads.

/\ This. In fact, the two designations FR-7, and FR-8 denote which one is which. Fucil Reformado No. 7, was a 7mm, 8, means it came
from an 8mm rifle.

I prefer the turned down bolt of the 7, but the usability of the 8 was paramount.

[EDELWEISS]

Im pretty sure the original CETME load was under power by NATO standards

[H60DoorGunner]

Im pretty sure the original CETME load was under power by NATO standards

That is correct. But the reasoning was to aid in controllability during full auto fire. It had nothing to do with the strength of the receivers the Spanish used.

[C.J. Singleton]

That was the first bolt action center fire I ever shot I came across one at a pawn shop i put it on layaway if my friend didn't want it I would buy it he wanted it I was almost hoping he wouldn't they are charging 328 out the door my uncle paid less than 200 for his and it was brand new condition he even bought the mini bolo bayonet for it.

John thanks for the info on the ammo my friend was worried about firing nato ammo through it even after I told him I fired some surplus M80 ball through one and nothing happened.

What I'm wondering is what kind of twist rate did they use? After some research on the 7.62 cetme I found that the load used a 112 115 grain bullet how much different will the POI be with standard 762 and 308 loads?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[H60DoorGunner]

That was the first bolt action center fire I ever shot I came across one at a pawn shop i put it on layaway if my friend didn't want it I would buy it he wanted it I was almost hoping he wouldn't they are charging 328 out the door my uncle paid less than 200 for his and it was brand new condition he even bought the mini bolo bayonet for it.

John thanks for the info on the ammo my friend was worried about firing nato ammo through it even after I told him I fired some surplus M80 ball through one and nothing happened.

What I'm wondering is what kind of twist rate did they use? After some research on the 7.62 cetme I found that the load used a 112 115 grain bullet how much different will the POI be with standard 762 and 308 loads?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

A lot of the Internet is awash with misinformation over the 7.62 VS. .308 argument. The main fallacy being that 7.62x51 generates 50,000 PSI, while .308 generates 62,000 PSI. This is incorrect, simply because 7.62 is measured in CUP, as opposed to PSI. The difference in measurement provides a number that is 10,000 different. So the reality is that 7.62 produces 60,000 PSI, while .308 produces 62,000 PSI...2,000 PSI is negligible.

The real concern with shooting .308 out of a rifle chambered in 7.62 is the headspace. Which is typically longer to accommodate the slightly more robust 7.62 casing (the case being slightly thicker due to it's use in machine guns). If the rifle even barely passes a .308 headspace test, it's safe to shoot with .308. Period, end of story.

The CETME barrel is a four groove barrel with a 1:12 twist rate.

[C.J. Singleton]

A lot of the Internet is awash with misinformation over the 7.62 VS. .308 argument. The main fallacy being that 7.62x51 generates 50,000 PSI, while .308 generates 62,000 PSI. This is incorrect, simply because 7.62 is measured in CUP, as opposed to PSI. The difference in measurement provides a number that is 10,000 different. So the reality is that 7.62 produces 60,000 PSI, while .308 produces 62,000 PSI...2,000 PSI is negligible.

The real concern with shooting .308 out of a rifle chambered in 7.62 is the headspace. Which is typically longer to accommodate the slightly more robust 7.62 casing (the case being slightly thicker due to it's use in machine guns). If the rifle even barely passes a .308 headspace test, it's safe to shoot with .308. Period, end of story.

The CETME barrel is a four groove barrel with a 1:12 twist rate.

Agreed its just like the 223 vs 5.56 argument I came to the conclusion years ago that properly loaded factory ammo will not blow anything up just because of differences in NATO and Commercial chamberings.

Thanks for the twis rate info 1:12 will handle most common 308/762 loads short of the heavy match grade stuff

[barnetmill]

For the .308 versus 7.62x51 the problem comes when people try to measure head space. I had a polytech M14S. Due to all of the horror stories of soft bolts and increasing head space I got a IIRC a no go gauge for likely the M60. The action would not close on it and I thought it was ok. But other people with .308 gauges had it close on all of their gauges. To be safe I changed out the bolt with TRW bolt that was hard. The polytech bolt was about a hardness of 40 compare the receiver which was about 56 to 59 on fiends tester and the TRW bolt was similar. I think the units were in rockwell, but I do not remember for sure.
Basically to determine excess headspace in a 7.62x51 you need nato spec gauges. I think that function under adverse conditions likely will be better with a little more space in the chamber.

[Maddog6]

I picked one of these 20 years ago when Big 5 carried them in stock. Mine looks almost new. A gunsmith friend of mine made a sight adjustment tool for me that I keep in the cylinder below the barrel. I'm thinking I paid around $150 at the time without bayonet which I picked up later.

[42Willys]

Nice rifle.

[SEANSTRAIT]

Looks like a fun rifle to shoot. Thanks for sharing.

[reforger2002]

Very nice! My pop gave me one as a welcome home present back in '07. They buck and roar a bit, but they are great rifles.

WHAT DID HE SAY?

He's not kidding those silly little things are LOUD - they're nice litte rifles - sights are a bit funky too bad price on them has rocketed of late

[H60DoorGunner]

WHAT DID HE SAY?

He's not kidding those silly little things are LOUD - they're nice litte rifles - sights are a bit funky too bad price on them has rocketed of late

Yeah, the only thing I can really compare it's report to is a Mosin M44. It's incredibly loud for a .308! I like it so much though, if I can find another for a decent price I'll change out the flash suppressor so I can put a can on it.

The 100m sight is a little odd; reminiscent of a Winchester 94's rear buckhorn....but not as nice haha. I kinda like the other three peeps though. This one shoots 2ish inch groups at 100 yards, but it's way high and right. I'm waiting on the special tool to come in the mail so I can dial it in a little better.

[barnetmill]

Yeah, the only thing I can really compare it's report to is a Mosin M44. It's incredibly loud for a .308! I like it so much though, if I can find another for a decent price I'll change out the flash suppressor so I can put a can on it.

The 100m sight is a little odd; reminiscent of a Winchester 94's rear buckhorn....but not as nice haha. I kinda like the other three peeps though. This one shoots 2ish inch groups at 100 yards, but it's way high and right. I'm waiting on the special tool to come in the mail so I can dial it in a little better. Sound like the rear sight of a G3 and probably the CETME. Often you can adjust G3 sights with a sharpened pair of Needle nose pliers.

[H60DoorGunner]

Sound like the rear sight of a G3 and probably the CETME. Often you can adjust G3 sights with a sharpened pair of Needle nose pliers.

On the first generation CETME, the windage and elevation are adjusted with the front sight post, by rotating the post through a hole in the top of the sight hood. I tried making a tool with an old shotgun cleaning rod, but one of the tabs snapped off haha! I didn't want to waste another rod, and the tool was $12.