Buying Bulk Ammo for the first time.

[Kelveren]

So, after many years, I'm finally in a place to put down cash for a bulk ammo purchase. I am pretty much all .22, 9mm, and 7.62x39. I am curious what all brands are liked, not as cheap plinking crap, but as a bulk purchase that you can still get decent reliability and accuracy down range with. Curious mostly about where everyone lands on 9mm and 7.62x39, since I'm already sitting ok on .22 at the moment. I couldn't really think of another forum this would fit in better.

Thanks

[IANative]

For bulk 9mm, I like Freedom Munitions. I've also had good luck w/ Target Sports USA and Palmetto State Armory.

No experience w/ 7.62x39.

E.T.A... sorry, I was thinking only in terms of where to order it from. As far as 9mm brands in bulk/training ammo, I still put Freedom Munitions' own stuff up there. I've never had any ammo issues w/ their 115gr FMJ remanufactured stuff. Blazer Brass has been good, WWB, too. The old Blazer aluminum-case was 100% reliable in every Glock I ever fed it thru... but I haven't seen any in a few years.

I would also add that it's not a bad idea to buy a case of your preferred carry ammo, too, as some of your training should be performed w/ your carry loads.

[barnetmill]

So, after many years, I'm finally in a place to put down cash for a bulk ammo purchase. I am pretty much all .22, 9mm, and 7.62x39. I am curious what all brands are liked, not as cheap plinking crap, but as a bulk purchase that you can still get decent reliability and accuracy down range with. Curious mostly about where everyone lands on 9mm and 7.62x39, since I'm already sitting ok on .22 at the moment. I couldn't really think of another forum this would fit in better.

Thanks The surplus yugo and russian Golden tiger are considered after american ammo the be the best AK ammo for mass purchase. In 9mm I have had failure to fire with the russian steel case ammo.

[LawDog]

For 9mm, I prefer Fed AE or WWB. I've heard good things about newer Aguila ammo, but their old product soured me to them so I haven't tried the new stuff yet. I have some Privi Partizan 9mm that I still keep around specifically for failure drills. Maybe it was just that batch of ammo, but I get one failure-to-fire out of every 10 or 20 rounds of that stuff. I shot plenty of Wolf during the drought of 2012, and it wasn't that bad. But for a few cents more, I'd rather have brass.

7.62x39 is hard. There isn't much of a mid-range. You either get cheap steel or expensive brass. Given the very wide price difference between the two, I'd probably just opt for a lot of steel-cased garbage, with the understanding that my barrel will be trashed in 5,000 rounds, but the ammo savings is enough to justify rebarelling the gun (or just buying a new gun). While I like the idea of 7.62x39, the ammo selection pushed me away from it. My expectation is that as .300 BLK grows in popularity, 7.62x39 will lose all of its appeal in less than a decade. That isn't an encouragement to sell off all of your AKs, but I would plan to shoot them until the barrels run smooth and have a replacement plan in place that moves to a different caliber/platform once you have worn them out.

[barnetmill]

For 9mm, I prefer Fed AE or WWB. I've heard good things about newer Aguila ammo, but their old product soured me to them so I haven't tried the new stuff yet. I have some Privi Partizan 9mm that I still keep around specifically for failure drills. Maybe it was just that batch of ammo, but I get one failure-to-fire out of every 10 or 20 rounds of that stuff. I shot plenty of Wolf during the drought of 2012, and it wasn't that bad. But for a few cents more, I'd rather have brass.

7.62x39 is hard. There isn't much of a mid-range. You either get cheap steel or expensive brass. Given the very wide price difference between the two, I'd probably just opt for a lot of steel-cased garbage, with the understanding that my barrel will be trashed in 5,000 rounds, but the ammo savings is enough to justify rebarelling the gun (or just buying a new gun). While I like the idea of 7.62x39, the ammo selection pushed me away from it. My expectation is that as .300 BLK grows in popularity, 7.62x39 will lose all of its appeal in less than a decade. That isn't an encouragement to sell off all of your AKs, but I would plan to shoot them until the barrels run smooth and have a replacement plan in place that moves to a different caliber/platform once you have worn them out.
So you are saying that chromed barrel in the ak is trashed after about 5 K round of russian steel case. I would like to find out more about that.

[barnetmill]

So you are saying that chromed barrel in the ak is trashed after about 5 K round of russian steel case. I would like to find out more about that. I am checking about and rapid wear rates are observed with people using 5.56x45 bimetal rounds in the AR. Velocity is much higher than with the 7.62x39. If the guns is not gotten too hot long and rapid firing seasons, I am seeing people claiming 15 k rounds for the 7.62x39 AK. But I see no sources for the claim, but I do not see any listed for LawDog's claim either. The SIG AK caliber rifle should be even better since I think they use a superior surface treating for the bore of their rifles.

[EDELWEISS]

Id say a lot depends on your particular rifle and what you expect it to do. I run both high end custom AKs and WASRs; but I dont expect either group to be more than 300m body shot guns. Yes I know that its possible to get 600m hits with good AKs and good ammo but I cant imagine stretching my AKs that far, enough times to pay the difference between quality and cheap ammo. Id rather have 2 cases of cheap ammo then one of quality for my AKs---Other rifles other missions other ammo

[georgeib]

Didn't that machine gun shooting range in Vegas get something like 100k rounds through their AKs?

[barnetmill]

Didn't that machine gun shooting range in Vegas get something like 100k rounds through their AKs?
What were the barrels like afterwards. An ak with worn barrel likely will function just fine. A .22 lr rifle barrel can go 100K rnds.

[georgeib]

What were the barrels like afterwards. An ak with worn barrel likely will function just fine. A .22 lr rifle barrel can go 100K rnds.
Here's the link to the article on thefirearmblog.com:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/06/03/how-many-rounds-can-an-ak-fire-before-it-breaks-down/

Surprised the heck out of me.

Also, didn't realize that about a .22LR, makes sense though.

[Gunfixr]

I've shot the newer Aguila ammo, it's not bad. The Yugo surplus 7.62x39 is getting scarce. It does shoot good, clean and consistent. However, the priming is mildly corrosive, so you must clean fairly soon after. It's not "gun turned green overnight" WWII surplus corrosive, but it is somewhat so, so you must clean with something to neutralize it.

[barnetmill]

I've shot the newer Aguila ammo, it's not bad. The Yugo surplus 7.62x39 is getting scarce. It does shoot good, clean and consistent. However, the priming is mildly corrosive, so you must clean fairly soon after. It's not "gun turned green overnight" WWII surplus corrosive, but it is somewhat so, so you must clean with something to neutralize it.

SGA has this at about $300 plus shipping; they had 11 cases left.

1120 Round Crate 7.62x39 M67 Non-magnetic Copper FMJ Brass Case Corrosive Yugo Surplus Ammo on SKS Stripper Clips (http://www.sgammo.com/product/762x39/1120-round-crate-762x39-m67-non-magnetic-copper-fmj-brass-case-corrosive-yugo-surplus)

[The rifleman next door]

www.targetsportsusa.com

if you buy a case they will ship it for free.....

[barnetmill]

www.targetsportsusa.com (http://www.targetsportsusa.com)

if you buy a case they will ship it for free..... I have always paid for shipping from SGA; good ole Eric over at ammoman has in the past picked up shipping costs. but that might change.

I reread the post. The people at your link do not sell the yugo which was the preferred ammo.

[LawDog]

I am checking about and rapid wear rates are observed with people using 5.56x45 bimetal rounds in the AR. Velocity is much higher than with the 7.62x39. If the guns is not gotten too hot long and rapid firing seasons, I am seeing people claiming 15 k rounds for the 7.62x39 AK. But I see no sources for the claim, but I do not see any listed for LawDog's claim either. The SIG AK caliber rifle should be even better since I think they use a superior surface treating for the bore of their rifles.I pulled the 5k round number out of my butt. So the citation for that statistic is lacking. I was indeed thinking with 5.56x45 in mind, and not factoring in the lower velocity of 7.62x39. And the Sig barrel would indeed be more resilient.

Still, if you use 5k as a sort of worst-case-scenario, it still balances out economically. Checking Gunbot right now, I found Wolf for $0.23/rd. The cheapest brass-cased ammo that I see is $0.52/rd. Let's round those off to $0.25 and $0.50. After 5,000 rounds, the cost savings for shooting the steel-cased crap is $1250. The downside, of course, is that it's, well....crap. Out to 100m or so, it's accurate enough to be useful for training. Within 25m or so, you'll hardly even notice the difference in accuracy. But for those 200m+ shots, you'll want to switch over to something better. It's hard to diagnose your own shooting errors when you are using 4 MOA ammo at distance.

If you do indeed get 15k rounds out of a barrel before degrading it with bimetal bullets, then triple the savings above. But even if you don't, you've saved enough to buy another 556R. If the truth falls somewhere between 5k and 15k, then maybe you've saved enough to buy a nice Arsenal.

My ultimate conclusion is this: Yes, shooting bimetal bullets (usually denoted by their steel cases) will wear out a barrel faster than shooting brass-jacketed lead bullets (which are common in ammo loaded in brass cases), but the cost savings of shooting steel-cased ammo more than offsets the cost incurred in barrel replacement. Lesson: it makes sense to shoot cheap, steel-cased ammo for training that does not require precise accuracy.

[jipel]

Wolf gold .223/5.56 (Brass case) is $300 shipped for a thousand round case.

[barnetmill]

I pulled the 5k round number out of my butt. So the citation for that statistic is lacking. I was indeed thinking with 5.56x45 in mind, and not factoring in the lower velocity of 7.62x39. And the Sig barrel would indeed be more resilient.

Still, if you use 5k as a sort of worst-case-scenario, it still balances out economically. Checking Gunbot right now, I found Wolf for $0.23/rd. The cheapest brass-cased ammo that I see is $0.52/rd. Let's round those off to $0.25 and $0.50. After 5,000 rounds, the cost savings for shooting the steel-cased crap is $1250. The downside, of course, is that it's, well....crap. Out to 100m or so, it's accurate enough to be useful for training. Within 25m or so, you'll hardly even notice the difference in accuracy. But for those 200m+ shots, you'll want to switch over to something better. It's hard to diagnose your own shooting errors when you are using 4 MOA ammo at distance.

If you do indeed get 15k rounds out of a barrel before degrading it with bimetal bullets, then triple the savings above. But even if you don't, you've saved enough to buy another 556R. If the truth falls somewhere between 5k and 15k, then maybe you've saved enough to buy a nice Arsenal.

My ultimate conclusion is this: Yes, shooting bimetal bullets (usually denoted by their steel cases) will wear out a barrel faster than shooting brass-jacketed lead bullets (which are common in ammo loaded in brass cases), but the cost savings of shooting steel-cased ammo more than offsets the cost incurred in barrel replacement. Lesson: it makes sense to shoot cheap, steel-cased ammo for training that does not require precise accuracy.
If you or I did the research a better answer would available as to useful barrel life. Fact is a degraded barrel that still shot say 6 moa while not desirable would work well for my purposes. If the bullet key holes, than that requires a barrel change. I currently use the AK and at my age will not likely wear my AKs out. In the old pre-ban days it was cheaper to buy a new one than to the replace a barrel. Now days I would look hard at the PTR32 even though their barrels are not coated with is a real shotcomming of PTRs.

[Kelveren]

Way more responses than I expected, and good information as well! Thanks guys. Helps give me some good starting points.

As long as I've been on here, this is the first time I remember seeing a discussion of bimetal rounds on their effects on the longevity of the barrel. Big help!

Sent from my EGM002 using Tapatalk