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View Full Version : The Glock Stechkin Project....



EDELWEISS
12-21-2014, 07:46 PM
Proposal: Begin with a G34 (some may choose a G17). Add a RMR package (closed slide preferred), extended/threaded barrel if suppressor is a local option. That's a good start BUT it needs more. Adding a 357SIG barrel is an option too BUT it needs a STOCK....

40917
This is how it started - a long slide Makarov (with select fire but that's another story)

40918
G34

40919
With a RMR

40920
Add a few Hi Cap mags and a STOCK

40921
Add a suppressor

40923
Wire STOCK

40922
And with a STOCK

EDELWEISS
12-21-2014, 08:24 PM
Lets be clear, this is still just a "napkin design" at this point. It seems quite "do-able"; but the stock is the real issue. There are few Glock stocks that look to be work the effort to put ink on a NFA form and the enclosures don't impress me from an esthetics POV or seem worth the size increase. OTOH a stock that wasn't a NFA device (not attached; but only held in place by grip pressure), makes the project worth consideration.

40924
The AIM Brace Its NOT a NFA item since its only held in place with grip pressure

strengverboten
12-21-2014, 08:33 PM
I'm not sold on it at all. But at least this one lets you add your own preferred M4 unit.

40925

John Chambers
12-21-2014, 08:45 PM
A UBR on a Glock. Now I have seen everything that can have an AR part attached to it.

EDELWEISS
12-21-2014, 09:23 PM
Im not particularly sold on the SBR part either without a GOOD Stock and that's the part that's lacking. The advantage of a "Unattached" Stock are of course the elimination of NFA implications BUT also the 3rd and maybe 4th Point of contact with an easily stowed part. Its a workable solution to an otherwise complex situation.

The Stocked Pistol is one of those niche weapons that makes you question if its really worth the effort BUT keeping it OFF the Registry makes it 100% legal wherever pistols are legal and no more illegal where they aren't. Personally Id prefer a G34 for its balanced look but once the "stock" in hand any Glock would work. This might also be a place for a 357SIG or 10mm version

40926
It doesn't take much imagination to picture how this STEN stock could be used (minus the front lug)

40927
Heres another version instead of the "key hole" for the STEN all it would need is a curve to match the butt of the Glock

Paper Shredder
12-21-2014, 10:03 PM
If you used a gen 4, you could probably adapt to the interchangeable backstrap system.....

EDELWEISS
12-21-2014, 10:12 PM
:sneaky:
If you used a gen 4, you could probably adapt to the interchangeable backstrap system.....

The IDEA is for it NOT to attach so the interchangeable backstrap wont work. First as an attachment point its weak but more important if it doesn't fall off when you release the grip its an NFA item. Forget about anything that slips into the grip or is pinned on or even held on with a Velcro strap.

Instead THINK of something that fits like half a glove and falls off when you turn your hand over.

Paper Shredder
12-21-2014, 10:14 PM
Maybe you could modify the grip so it docks in so theres consistency

Paper Shredder
12-21-2014, 10:16 PM
Mill a vertical slot in the back hollow area..... Then the stock piece Keys in.....

EDELWEISS
12-21-2014, 10:21 PM
Maybe you could modify the grip so it docks in so theres consistency

And then when you "need it" you have to remove the existing backstrap..... Plus I think anything going internal is gonna make the item questionable. Take a closer look at the Ruger pictured above. Its NOT attached. Instead it just matches the shape of the grip so that your grip pressure "locks it" in place. Release the grip and it falls away. Nothing inside. Nothing wrapped around. Nothing holding it there EXCEPT your grip

Brent Yamamoto
12-21-2014, 10:25 PM
:sneaky:

The IDEA is for it NOT to attach so the interchangeable backstrap wont work. First as an attachment point its weak but more important if it doesn't fall off when you release the grip its an NFA item. Forget about anything that slips into the grip or is pinned on or even held on with a Velcro strap.

Instead THINK of something that fits like half a glove and falls off when you turn your hand over.

This.

I think something in the shape of the Endo stock, but instead of locking in the grip, it's a thin bit of material that follows the backstrap. What I would add is some kydex attached to the unit, with the kydex wrapping around part of the glock grip. Not so tight that it locks on...you have to hold it in place.

I think the Endo unit might have some utility just using a pistol buffer tube. For my purposes, it's a matter of how fast it can be attached. But legality-wise...I don't know where that would stand with only the buffer tube.

EDELWEISS
12-21-2014, 10:26 PM
Mill a vertical slot in the back hollow area..... Then the stock piece Keys in.....

Bro, Im not sure how else to say it...NO milled slots NO slipping anything inside. Think spooning with your girlfriend and youre both wearing snow suits--match the curves but nothing gets stuck inside

EDELWEISS
12-21-2014, 10:35 PM
This.

I think something in the shape of the Endo stock, but instead of locking in the grip, it's a thin bit of material that follows the backstrap. What I would add is some kydex attached to the unit, with the kydex wrapping around part of the glock grip. Not so tight that it locks on...you have to hold it in place.

I think the Endo unit might have some utility just using a pistol buffer tube. For my purposes, it's a matter of how fast it can be attached. But legality-wise...I don't know where that would stand with only the buffer tube.

Of all the Glock stocks the ENDO looks the most promising BUT I still think its overly complicated. Note that the Soviets ditched the BroomHandle stock in favor of the much simpler wire stock on the Stechkin. Look how huge the ENDO is compared to a wire stock or even the STEn stock. I do think that just the buffer tube would be sufficient BUT I also think the stock has to be longer than standard LOP for a pistol with a reciprocating slide. Back in the days of 5D cell Maglights, I tested this concept by just wedging the flashlight against my shoulder and the grip. It "worked" after a fashion but a "spoon" for the back of the grip would have locked it all in place

Brent Yamamoto
12-21-2014, 10:49 PM
Edel you and I are on the same page.

The thing I like about the Endo is that it leaves room for your grip, and has contact points at top and bottom. Take that concept but turn it into more of a wire design, with a backstrap that follows the curve of the back of the glock grip. Add a bit of kydex that wraps around some of the glock grip.

As for LOP, I don't think we'd need THAT much. More is better, but this thing needs to be small. For my purposes it has to fit inside a bag that's smaller than a laptop case, otherwise I'd just carry something bigger.

I've done some experiments with an ASP...same idea as with your maglight. LOP is perfect, but without a decent attachment point it's worthless. I had ideas for a kind of kydex sleeve that could be left on the gun, with an indentation for the tip of the ASP, but it hasn't been a huge priority for me to work on.

coastalcop
12-22-2014, 05:56 AM
Edel,

I think something that didn't intrude far into the void at the backstrap would assist in indexing but would still fall away if released 1/4 to 1/2 inch intrusion would still fall off once grip pressure was removed but would not let the system "Twist" in the hand during use.

CR Williams
12-22-2014, 06:53 AM
A narrow strip that runs up the backstrap that you would wrap the hand around as you're gripping the pistol could be helpful IF it doesn't add significant fore-aft length to the grip. You open your hand and it falls away. Tricky part would be making it thin enough not to mess up the grip more than a bit.

Mushinto
12-22-2014, 07:49 AM
Love the ideas. Keep them coming.

ML

kmussack
12-22-2014, 08:02 AM
Crosman 1399 shoulder stock: <$25.00

jlwilliams
12-22-2014, 08:30 AM
Lets be clear, this is still just a "napkin design" at this point. It seems quite "do-able"; but the stock is the real issue. There are few Glock stocks that look to be work the effort to put ink on a NFA form and the enclosures don't impress me from an esthetics POV or seem worth the size increase. OTOH a stock that wasn't a NFA device (not attached; but only held in place by grip pressure), makes the project worth consideration.

40924
The AIM Brace Its NOT a NFA item since its only held in place with grip pressure

I have one of these for the Ruger pistol. It works pretty well. I have all the tools to make something like this to fit a Glock. I've been meaning to get around to doing so for a long time. After Christmas I'll get off my azz and make one. Maybe I'll make two, so you can try it out too.

I think that if it was done exactly the way they did it, it would move around a little too much on the Glock. I made a small modification to mine and it helped. I'll take that into account and build the Glock one with the improvement designed in from the beginning. I have had some success in the past with designing products for production and I'm teats deep in a new brand in a completely new-to-me (but strong and viable) industry but I have this idea fleshed out enough that it will be something I can do in some after hours time.

If I don't get on it in a couple weeks, feel free to hurl taunts to get me moving.

DogDoc
12-22-2014, 08:35 AM
I have one of these for the Ruger pistol. It works pretty well. I have all the tools to make something like this to fit a Glock. I've been meaning to get around to doing so for a long time. After Christmas I'll get off my azz and make one. Maybe I'll make two, so you can try it out too.

I think that if it was done exactly the way they did it, it would move around a little too much on the Glock. I made a small modification to mine and it helped. I'll take that into account and build the Glock one with the improvement designed in from the beginning. I have had some success in the past with designing products for production and I'm teats deep in a new brand in a completely new-to-me (but strong and viable) industry but I have this idea fleshed out enough that it will be something I can do in some after hours time.

If I don't get on it in a couple weeks, feel free to hurl taunts to get me moving.

Your father was a hamster and your mother smelt of elderberry! Oh wait, sorry, you said to wait a few weeks...tough to resist a good taunting.

Doc

coastalcop
12-22-2014, 08:57 AM
Your father was a hamster and your mother smelt of elderberry! Oh wait, sorry, you said to wait a few weeks...tough to resist a good taunting.

Doc

I fart in your general direction ;)

Danneskjold
12-22-2014, 09:34 AM
If you Monty Python fans will just take this seriously for a minute, I think a wire stock like the Mini Uzi or the KPOS would be small, unobtrusive and sturdy enough, given the method of attachment (or non-attachment, as Edelweiss may describe it).

Also: Edelweiss, you have a problem. Admitting your addiction is the first step. (Writing a book about your addiction is just you trying to be the Hunter S. Thompson of guns).

DogDoc
12-22-2014, 09:43 AM
I think this non-attached non stock idea has real potential. I've been thinking about it for a long time. A kydex "glove" for the Glock grip seems a good way to go. Then, just figure out a way to add the non stock. :)

Something really light but high enough for a decent cheek weld. I think anything as heavy as a buffer tube or SIG brace would be a tragedy on a potentially-nimble set up like this.

The "not-a-stock" could be slung from the shoulder under a jacket.

Doc

CR Williams
12-22-2014, 10:21 AM
So what you're looking for would be:

Something that contacts at least at top and bottom of Glock receiver/grip that is

held in place by grip and/or shoulder pressure that

sets up a good/comfortable LOP and is stiff enough that it

precludes vertical rotation and makes the pistol act like a PCC when fired and is

simple and solid of construction while it

doesn't affect the grip any or at least very much if at all.

That's about it, right?

I had something pop into mind. May need to draw it out and see what it eats.

bassbones
12-22-2014, 11:02 AM
Im heading to the lab......three sides of kydex wrapped around the pistol grip except at the finger grooves and then rivet a DSA buffer tube adapter to the back of it......hmmmmmmm.

JB

EDELWEISS
12-22-2014, 11:32 AM
Edel,

I think something that didn't intrude far into the void at the backstrap would assist in indexing but would still fall away if released 1/4 to 1/2 inch intrusion would still fall off once grip pressure was removed but would not let the system "Twist" in the hand during use.


A narrow strip that runs up the backstrap that you would wrap the hand around as you're gripping the pistol could be helpful IF it doesn't add significant fore-aft length to the grip. You open your hand and it falls away. Tricky part would be making it thin enough not to mess up the grip more than a bit.

OK Guys yes the backstrap is a great idea that essentially what has been used on every machinepistole EXCEPT this isn't a Machinepistole. Its NOT Steel and if youll recall the attemts to put a stock on the 1911 meant changing the recoil spring housing-not a simple operation under fire. The Glock is PLASTIC. the backstraps weren't meant for torque AND while I suppose it possible to fire the gun without a backstrap in place its NOT likely to be comfy. The WHOLE point of this it to be able to use your Glock as usual until you feel the need to add the stock.

Now since I have zero ability to make this device I encourage you to build it anyway you like....


Crosman 1399 shoulder stock: <$25.00

Yep I thought about a much reinforced version of that


I have one of these for the Ruger pistol. It works pretty well. I have all the tools to make something like this to fit a Glock. I've been meaning to get around to doing so for a long time. After Christmas I'll get off my azz and make one. Maybe I'll make two, so you can try it out too.

I think that if it was done exactly the way they did it, it would move around a little too much on the Glock. I made a small modification to mine and it helped. I'll take that into account and build the Glock one with the improvement designed in from the beginning. I have had some success in the past with designing products for production and I'm teats deep in a new brand in a completely new-to-me (but strong and viable) industry but I have this idea fleshed out enough that it will be something I can do in some after hours time.

If I don't get on it in a couple weeks, feel free to hurl taunts to get me moving.

I agree! It needs "wings". If I stuck with a single point for the stock to meet the "cup", Id be tempted for it to be just below the beavertail rather than at the bottom of the grip. The more I think about the project I might try for two or three prototypes 1. wire stock at the bottom as in the AIM model 2. wire stock at the top 3. a thumbhole design--picture the Endo but instead of a "C" it should be a drunken "O"


If you Monty Python fans will just take this seriously for a minute, I think a wire stock like the Mini Uzi or the KPOS would be small, unobtrusive and sturdy enough, given the method of attachment (or non-attachment, as Edelweiss may describe it).

YEP

Also: Edelweiss, you have a problem. Admitting your addiction is the first step. (Writing a book about your addiction is just you trying to be the Hunter S. Thompson of guns).

Wow Bro! that's a huge F-ing compliment but I was shooting for the Warren Zevon of Mayhem.....


I think this non-attached non stock idea has real potential. I've been thinking about it for a long time. A kydex "glove" for the Glock grip seems a good way to go. Then, just figure out a way to add the non stock. :)

Something really light but high enough for a decent cheek weld. I think anything as heavy as a buffer tube or SIG brace would be a tragedy on a potentially-nimble set up like this.

The "not-a-stock" could be slung from the shoulder under a jacket.

Doc

Picture a "coat hanger on steroids".

Funny you mentioned "glove" there was(maybe still is) a glove with a removable plastic insert that could be slipped in a pocket that ran from where the pinky meets the palm to behind the wrist. It was supposed to help the shooter keep a straight grip???


So what you're looking for would be:

Something that contacts at least at top and bottom of Glock receiver/grip that is

held in place by grip and/or shoulder pressure that

sets up a good/comfortable LOP and is stiff enough that it

precludes vertical rotation and makes the pistol act like a PCC when fired and is

simple and solid of construction while it

doesn't affect the grip any or at least very much if at all.

That's about it, right?

I had something pop into mind. May need to draw it out and see what it eats.

Yep that's about it. EXCEPT it should be held in place by the GRIP only and allow the SHOULDER to reinforce "the seal". Ideally it should be trim. I like the concept of the ENDO but it looks waaaaay to fat for this project but not actually having one to get touchy feely with I cant say for sure. In my mind I picture something like the wire stock on the M3 Grease Gun or the AMD65 or maybe the Vz58???

Paper Shredder
12-22-2014, 04:16 PM
Bro, Im not sure how else to say it...NO milled slots NO slipping anything inside. Think spooning with your girlfriend and youre both wearing snow suits--match the curves but nothing gets stuck inside

I appreciate the graphic analogy that resonates with a simpletons mind such as myself!

I'll throw you a sketch a bit later of my thinking of the slot concept married up to your grip pressure pic. I was thinking that it would give consistency of location with the ease of deployment and ease of disassembly.

Shotgunwillie
12-23-2014, 10:42 AM
I was messing around with a coat hanger the other day for this. As much as I would love for it to be made of metal, (I've been a welder/fabricator for years), I think plastic is the way to go for the Glock. Lighter, and the Glock already flexes.

Shotgunwillie
12-23-2014, 10:51 AM
I think we pretty much have it nailed, we just need to get the tools out and start working on it.

- A piece of kydex that is formed to the back strap, AND wraps slightly around both sides of the grip.

- A light weight stock attached to the grip wrap. It needs to support a decent cheek weld and sight alignment, does not interfere with the grip, and is light weight while still being sturdy.

We are making something so simple way too complicated.

Paper Shredder
12-23-2014, 12:13 PM
40952

I was thinking of this, but a kydex wrap seems easier obviously without modifying the gun.

Paper Shredder
12-23-2014, 12:24 PM
40953

I think that's nice.... edel, I think you should patent this

CR Williams
12-23-2014, 01:08 PM
40952

I was thinking of this, but a kydex wrap seems easier obviously without modifying the gun.

I think this one would torque unless it was pretty heavy-built.

coastalcop
12-23-2014, 02:05 PM
Aluminum not kydex

Shotgunwillie
12-23-2014, 02:58 PM
The main brace/support needs to be at the upper end of the grip, or at the top and bottom. Otherwise, the muzzle will flex up under applied pressure and recoil.

I really like the telescoping idea, I've been hit in the eye with a scope before, I can only imagine how a Glock slide would feel.

Just an idea, but would it be NFA if it attached to the magazine?

coastalcop
12-23-2014, 03:03 PM
Just an idea, but would it be NFA if it attached to the magazine?

I don't know but the old "real men of genius" commercial played though my head wheni read this I like the outside the box thinking ( probably cause they never let me out of the box;)

Shotgunwillie
12-23-2014, 03:08 PM
My "problem" is that I don't know how to think inside the box, other than how to get out of it.

A stock attached to a happy stick perhaps?

I'm not sure if it will cause any reliability issues though. Obviously it would take a little longer to remove, attach to another mag, and reload.

Now how do we figure out if this is kosher with the ATF?

Jamison
12-23-2014, 03:11 PM
40953

I think that's nice.... edel, I think you should patent this

That was the concept that I was thinking of with this thread.

What do you think about adding a little lip on the underside of that to interface with the lanyard hole on the underside of the pistol. I think that would give it a little bit more stability still without making it have any more attachment to the stock.

Also, I was thinking just two aluminum bars or maybe rods going from the back strap area to the stock, deleting the telescoping ability but making it more streamlined and lighter.

Paper Shredder
12-23-2014, 04:19 PM
Yeah twin bars would be a bit less bulky... Still could have some telescoping/ collapsibility to it.

Gabriel Suarez
12-23-2014, 04:25 PM
If we design it, I will build it. I see a "taco" of sorts. that the glock pistol fits into...the grip frame anyway and the grip of the shooter fits and holds it in place. It would be best if it had no moving parts, places to add cheekrests, magazines or condoms. Simple one piece design. Yes...it will suck if you are six-eleven, but there it is. Aluminum manufacture with an ION bond finish designed to be a "throw in the war bag" thing. Call it a GAD (Grip Augmentation Device). Less than $100.

Paper Shredder
12-23-2014, 04:47 PM
40957maybe something like this.... I'm sure there is a clean, functional, but still aesthetically pleasing solution somewhere.

If you guys want, I could get my guys to work this up in CAD.

All 1 continuous bar stock would be nice as well.

TrojanSkyCop1
12-23-2014, 05:32 PM
Wow, you have a Stechkin....so envious....

Jamison
12-23-2014, 05:43 PM
40957maybe something like this.... I'm sure there is a clean, functional, but still aesthetically pleasing solution somewhere.

If you guys want, I could get my guys to work this up in CAD.

All 1 continuous bar stock would be nice as well.

So first of all forgive my lack of illustration skills. This is what I was thinking.

40958

Make the comb out of a solid piece or probably two rods that flow into the upper part of the grip. Imagine one of the Gen4 back strap extended to form a clam around the upper part of the grip. with a hook on the underside...

I just realized that there would have to be different models for different grip lengths (G19,17) ect.

Paper Shredder
12-23-2014, 06:17 PM
yes, different grip lengths or just let piece hang lower on 19s....

i'm thinking bar stock with a foam tube for some padding with a glass reinforced nylon that is injection molded that has holes for the bar stock to engage into.

40961

or this.... to account for the shoulder to line of sight alignment (similar to the existing product that fits in the plug)

40963

Mushinto
12-23-2014, 07:11 PM
Since I already have a Glock registered as an SBR, whatever you make, I can use. I know the idea is to avoid SBR status, but I can attach it more solidly on one pistol.

So, make it happen already.

ML

Shotgunwillie
12-23-2014, 07:14 PM
Paper Shredder, I think you should add another diagonal brace to the top (or bottom) of the last two drawings.

It should be more solid and allow you to apply the pressure more evenly.

Mushinto
12-23-2014, 07:15 PM
... 40963

Maybe if I had eyes like a crab.

40964

Jamison
12-23-2014, 07:21 PM
yes, different grip lengths or just let piece hang lower on 19s....

i'm thinking bar stock with a foam tube for some padding with a glass reinforced nylon that is injection molded that has holes for the bar stock to engage into.

40961

or this.... to account for the shoulder to line of sight alignment (similar to the existing product that fits in the plug)

40963
Option 1, I would think.

Allows for the recoil of the pistol to move backward into the stock, I would think it would be stronger and allows for someone to use the stronger part of their hand to grip the stock. If the attachment is for a 17 length grip #2 would have the bar sticking out lower then the bottom of the mag for a G19.

Option 1 the end user could trim down the bottom of the attachment for different grip lengths, it could also be made for a G26 length and still be usable on a G34.

Also, if you want to work on the shoulder to sight alignment why not put a dogleg in the bar?

Would ending the stock in an L be less effective then a triangle? I think it would reduce weight and bulk a little bit.

CR Williams
12-23-2014, 07:25 PM
40966

top-of-the-head concept. Thought the diagonal bracing would help.

I like Paper Shredder's first concept as well.

Danneskjold
12-23-2014, 10:19 PM
I really like the telescoping idea, I've been hit in the eye with a scope before, I can only imagine how a Glock slide would feel.


4 stitches from a High Power slide. When you teach your children, pay attention to how close they bring their eyes to the sights...

EDELWEISS
12-23-2014, 10:31 PM
I love when a plan starts to come together. Now somebody build it!

Again Im gonna suggest you take into account some extended LOP even if its not actually needed, I think it will be appreciated. It doesnt have to be full arms length but I do believe it needs to be longer than a rifle -- trust me on this OR prove me wrong but I know of which I speak....

Im not opposed to poly-raz-ma-taz but it should be sturdy. Id really prefer mostly metal construction. Im open to options IF its sturdy NO FLEX

Now make it and make lots of $$$ Id love to do the BETA testing--it would be an honor

coastalcop
12-24-2014, 05:11 AM
two pieces.

Piece one: Aluminum that wraps around grip area creating two half moon circles at slide height (flats of half moon to the slide side)

Piece two: Half moon steel or aluminum rod one piece continuous that is bent to wire stock configuration.

Mating point of wire has relief cuts to interact with halfmoon cutouts in grip that are facing outward. Continuous bends are made to have wire portion naturally wider that piece one creating a spring tension lock between relief cuts and the two pieces.

Conclusion , adjustable GAD that keeps stock out of natural grip postion, is adjustable for LOP (within reason) and easy to manufacture (at one point a I designed a motorcycle luggage using pelican cases before it caught on, there lots of services for precision wire bending , we used on company that produced parts for steel shopping carts)

CR Williams
12-24-2014, 05:41 AM
Im not opposed to poly-raz-ma-taz but it should be sturdy. Id really prefer mostly metal construction. Im open to options IF its sturdy NO FLEX

That's why I have the diagonal brace on my concept. Idea is to keep it stiff even if it's made from polymer.

Jesuvuah
12-24-2014, 06:06 AM
I am intrigued. If they are produced I am game for one.

Shotgunwillie
12-24-2014, 08:20 AM
As far as production goes I see one issue. Many Glocks have had the back strap reduced/re-shaped. Also, it will not be easy to form metal to the curves of the grip.

I'm thinking that some kind of reference point, or even a stop to keep from moving your face too far forward on the slide would be really nice to have.

Shotgunwillie
12-24-2014, 08:26 AM
http://www.warriortalk.com/webkit-fake-url://6c7781c7-8f12-4f2c-8479-011b5761c52c/imagejpeg

Yondering
12-24-2014, 02:04 PM
Also, it will not be easy to form metal to the curves of the grip.



My thought as well, although it could be done with CNC machining. A formable plastic like Kydex makes sense for the grip area.

Regardless, I'm interested, and like the concept.

bassbones
12-24-2014, 03:14 PM
Im going to get some 1/2 inch conduit saturday and a bender. Going to make the grip cover out of kydex.....shape the conduit, flatten the area where the kydex goes and rivet it to the conduit with chicago screws, then wrap the tube with paracord. Into the lab we go........

JB

Shotgunwillie
12-24-2014, 03:26 PM
As soon as I get back from NC I'm gonna start working on a prototype as well.

glocked
12-30-2014, 03:00 PM
http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz45/jandbj/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/88D0AD90-437D-4BE7-B01A-AD7587C0129B_zpsijx2zg37.jpg (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/jandbj/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/88D0AD90-437D-4BE7-B01A-AD7587C0129B_zpsijx2zg37.jpg.html)

9.5 oz of stainless steel. About 1 oz less than a loaded G17 mag.

EDELWEISS
12-30-2014, 03:15 PM
http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz45/jandbj/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/88D0AD90-437D-4BE7-B01A-AD7587C0129B_zpsijx2zg37.jpg (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/jandbj/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/88D0AD90-437D-4BE7-B01A-AD7587C0129B_zpsijx2zg37.jpg.html)

9.5 oz of stainless steel. About 1 oz less than a loaded G17 mag.

OK so tell me, tell me, tell me... How does it feel? Is it secure when you hold it? Whats the LOP? What what what???

glocked
12-30-2014, 03:32 PM
10.75" between the 2 pieces. Not too bad all in all. This is the one Mark White at SoundTech made me back in the mid 90's.

EDELWEISS
12-30-2014, 03:44 PM
10.75" between the 2 pieces. Not too bad all in all. This is the one Mark White at SoundTech made me back in the mid 90's.

Damn! I was hoping you were going into production... I found this one on GBer. It looks intriquing but I don't see the need for a folding mechanism for "our" project.

41051

41052

41053

41054

The above set up is for a SBR'd FN; but they also make an adaptor for SBR'd GLOCKs. I talked to the builder unfortunately he's NOT willing to do a run of NON-Stocks; but he will sell the rig with the flat base (no adaptor).

EDELWEISS
12-30-2014, 03:49 PM
Here's the Glock SBR version

41055

41056

Notice how the Glock SBR version braces against the mag as well as inside the grip. That's great IF youre using a happy stick but maybe not so good if you only have a standard mag. The FN version looks more suitable for the Non-Stock version

Mushinto
12-30-2014, 07:32 PM
Here's the Glock SBR version ...

Who is the manufacturer?

ML

Paper Shredder
12-30-2014, 08:01 PM
OK, so I was bored and whipped this up quick.

Should be an easy injection molded design with a bent bar stock (aluminum or steel) with a foam pad over the end or dipped (like the garage org stuff).

Found a Glock 17 CAD model...pretty accurate, but final will have to be laser scanned from actual.

LOP can be adjusted.

41061
41062
41063
41064

Shotgunwillie
12-30-2014, 08:03 PM
Nice work. You should add a cheek riser.

Paper Shredder
12-30-2014, 10:16 PM
Looked at it a bit more...angle needed to be improved. LOP is 10.5" as shown... but could be longer/shorter


41065
41066
41067

coastalcop
12-31-2014, 05:12 AM
Paper,

Its looks great, have you held your glock to ensure that there is enough room between beaver tail on top and exit point for stock at bottom?

I say that because holding my 22 the bottom portion of my palm still extends 1/2 inch below the bottom of the pistol. Im not saying it wont work, Im just taking a couple of eyeball measurements

EDELWEISS
12-31-2014, 06:10 AM
It wont need a riser if you have the stock come from the top--- under the beavertail

Paper Shredder
12-31-2014, 06:54 AM
Paper,

Its looks great, have you held your glock to ensure that there is enough room between beaver tail on top and exit point for stock at bottom?

I say that because holding my 22 the bottom portion of my palm still extends 1/2 inch below the bottom of the pistol. Im not saying it wont work, Im just taking a couple of eyeball measurements

Maybe I have girly hands, but on a G17, the base of my thumb (the "drum stick" if you will) comes right near there. I was thinking it would compress the hand up close to the beaver tail. The dimensions can be adjusted, but this will have to be prototyped in a quick 3D print to verify. Probably won't hurt to make it a bit longer to fit more hands.

On having a top railed design, I think ultimately, it will have to be a dual rail upper/lower to handle the recoil with minimal flex. The only draw back i'm thinking is that having enough material to anchor a bar stock up top will drive the hand position down a bit. Probably will eat up 3/8" or so.

coastalcop
12-31-2014, 07:15 AM
Paper
Just did a couple of eyeballs with what I had on my desk. grabbed a spare glock 17 got a good grip on it. Took the steel tube of a 6 in screwdriver roughly 1/2 inch diameter and set on top of first thumb alongside left side of slide, then along indexed trigger finger on right side. It appears to halfsplit the 1/2 inch tube between the remaining frame exposed above the thumb and roughly 1/4 ish inch of slide. Cant upload from this comp to give you a picture so I hope my description allows you to test on your end and see what Im talking about.

S_______________________________________SS
I
I
I_____________________________ OOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXX
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIOOOO OOOOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
I

I know this is ROUGH and not to scale but gives you a better idea (I hope) of what Im talking about if the image goes through

Paper Shredder
12-31-2014, 07:52 AM
Coastal, I don't understand the text diagram, but I will have to go to a physical prototype at some point. Its slow at the office so I'm ideating a bit. Here's a dual bar design...needs tweaking as the top can move closer to the slide, but don't want interference. This will require some CAD time and I'm just spitballing still so I'm not investing in too much time.

41078

Without the padding

41079

coastalcop
12-31-2014, 08:01 AM
That's because the image screwed up from making it to posting it, edited now top is sights and slide "O" represent where stock interacts with frame and encroachment on slide. "X" is representation of wire for stock

Shotgunwillie
12-31-2014, 08:22 AM
While messing around with designs I found that you will just have to alter your grip on the gun and the lower bar will clear. Basically you move your right hand more to the right side of the grip, similar to a standard rifle stock.

Custom II
12-31-2014, 09:19 AM
These are seriously awesome designs. I could see carrying one in a bag... Or having one dedicated for use with an RMRed G34


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Custom II
12-31-2014, 10:06 AM
I wonder... If you could make interchangeable inserts out of hard rubber or delrin (or similar) to match the different angles between a 17 frame and a 19 frame.

Also, I wonder how viable creating a magnetic attachment would be. Putting a strong magnet in a grip plug, and another along the bottom of the "stock". While this wouldn't attach the stock permanently, it would help stabilize it during mag changes, etc. basically allowing for a less than perfect grip and not having the whole thing come apart.


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red-it
12-31-2014, 10:41 AM
A dual mag holder for happysticks mounted in the center would make for a perfect loadout

Yondering
12-31-2014, 11:15 AM
Coastal, I don't understand the text diagram, but I will have to go to a physical prototype at some point. Its slow at the office so I'm ideating a bit. Here's a dual bar design...needs tweaking as the top can move closer to the slide, but don't want interference. This will require some CAD time and I'm just spitballing still so I'm not investing in too much time.

41078

Without the padding

41079

Drop the lower bar about 1/2", and we might have a winner here.

Paper Shredder
12-31-2014, 11:19 AM
I wonder... If you could make interchangeable inserts out of hard rubber or delrin (or similar) to match the different angles between a 17 frame and a 19 frame.

Also, I wonder how viable creating a magnetic attachment would be. Putting a strong magnet in a grip plug, and another along the bottom of the "stock". While this wouldn't attach the stock permanently, it would help stabilize it during mag changes, etc. basically allowing for a less than perfect grip and not having the whole thing come apart.


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The design could potentially warrant 2 handle molds to allow for G19/17 and the other 40sw frames.

You also could make the center parts of the "taco" made up of Thermo Plastic Rubber so that its like a trampoline in the center with the hard plastic still acting as a frame to account for the different frame contours.

I was also thinking of hollowing out panels so that your hand wouldn't feel the total increase in circumference of the grip. If you left out 2 large holes in the sides, your skin would just grip the pistol grip itself.

Red Ryder
12-31-2014, 11:25 AM
Amazing progress on a cool idea. Credit to PaperShredder!

Another design I have seen at gun shows has a top point that encompasses the point of the beavertail. The bottom is secured in the backstrap and has a pin that goes through the hole, thus making it a Form 1 issue, but the top is a friction fit.

just a thought. Cheek weld is important, so the top rail is definitely the way to go.

Custom II
12-31-2014, 11:46 AM
Drop the lower bar about 1/2", and we might have a winner here.

Yes!


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jlwilliams
01-01-2015, 07:19 AM
Winner!

45Smashemflat
01-01-2015, 07:52 AM
Waiting to see it in a catalog....

Mushinto
01-01-2015, 09:29 AM
:thumbsup:

SinistralRifleman
01-01-2015, 08:30 PM
Coastal, I don't understand the text diagram, but I will have to go to a physical prototype at some point. Its slow at the office so I'm ideating a bit. Here's a dual bar design...needs tweaking as the top can move closer to the slide, but don't want interference. This will require some CAD time and I'm just spitballing still so I'm not investing in too much time.

41078

Without the padding

41079


This is would work better than a lot of other designs that only have a single stock point at the bottom of the pistol grip. The whole frame and stock flexes under recoil. The upper bar would allow for recoil to come straight back making it more controllable.

EDELWEISS
01-01-2015, 10:34 PM
Who is the manufacturer?

ML

search GBer for "Glock Stock" or similar. Honestly I think we have better ideas in this thread BUT the one on GBer is in production and availabe, so untill you guys go from computer screen to "in my hands" Im gonna hold my breath and think hard about what I can get NOW

COME'on guys start bending some F-ing metal

Paper Shredder
01-02-2015, 08:29 AM
I could get it done, but peddling goods in Gabe's house is not my intention. The design by my own accord is free by posting on a public domain. Unfortunately, I can't use my resources beyond that unless there's a business case for it.

Shotgunwillie
01-02-2015, 08:31 AM
I can handle the metal parts. My issue is the formed polymer. If I had a way to do that I would.

Housertl
01-02-2015, 02:49 PM
I can handle the metal parts. My issue is the formed polymer. If I had a way to do that I would.
I have a 3d printer... If I had an object file, I could print it.

Shotgunwillie
01-02-2015, 02:50 PM
How do you get the object file? Do you need a 3d scan of the grip?

Paper Shredder
01-02-2015, 03:29 PM
I'd have to send the CAD file. I have a 3D printer as well. Still needs development though. I was thinking some cardboard mock ups for final LOP and butt angle. Gabe offered to build it and I don't want to interject with a commercial "cock block". If he wants to build it, I'll develop and he can vet to see if its worth branding under SI. If you guys want to build your own, I can offer the file as is, but the design needs tweaking to increase the height of that grip before 3D printing.

apamburn
01-02-2015, 07:41 PM
I don't have much to add here except that...

This right here? This is AWESOME.

And I will buy one because that design is exactly what I have been looking for.

Carry on... :)

glocked
01-07-2015, 07:11 PM
OK so tell me, tell me, tell me... How does it feel? Is it secure when you hold it? Whats the LOP? What what what???
Works best with a 17 or 19, tolerable with the 26, doesn't move around when firing. It occurs to me while handling it and seeing the GB Glock Stock pics... If it fit in the hollow in the bottom of the stock, all my Glocks have grip plugs (not snug where it became a stock in the eyes of the NFA).... Would that still be non NFA? Or not because your grip pressure wouldn't be securing the 2, more the forward pressure from your shoulder and rearward your grip pulling back would be holding it in place? Thought that because in theory if you held it anyway other than with the grip perpendicular to the ground, the brace wouldn't fall away when pressure was released.

Any opinions on that conundrum would be appreciated.

CR Williams
01-08-2015, 08:09 AM
Coastal, I don't understand the text diagram, but I will have to go to a physical prototype at some point. Its slow at the office so I'm ideating a bit. Here's a dual bar design...needs tweaking as the top can move closer to the slide, but don't want interference. This will require some CAD time and I'm just spitballing still so I'm not investing in too much time.

41078

Without the padding

41079

Excellent.

When available? How much? Pre-order?

It calls to me.

CR Williams
01-08-2015, 08:10 AM
Works best with a 17 or 19, tolerable with the 26, doesn't move around when firing. It occurs to me while handling it and seeing the GB Glock Stock pics... If it fit in the hollow in the bottom of the stock, all my Glocks have grip plugs (not snug where it became a stock in the eyes of the NFA).... Would that still be non NFA? Or not because your grip pressure wouldn't be securing the 2, more the forward pressure from your shoulder and rearward your grip pulling back would be holding it in place? Thought that because in theory if you held it anyway other than with the grip perpendicular to the ground, the brace wouldn't fall away when pressure was released.

Any opinions on that conundrum would be appreciated.

I believe it's been stated here that anything that goes into the grip gap would make it an attachable stock and so NFA.

CaptBeach
01-10-2015, 12:55 PM
If we design it, I will build it. I see a "taco" of sorts. that the glock pistol fits into...the grip frame anyway and the grip of the shooter fits and holds it in place. It would be best if it had no moving parts, places to add cheekrests, magazines or condoms. Simple one piece design. Yes...it will suck if you are six-eleven, but there it is. Aluminum manufacture with an ION bond finish designed to be a "throw in the war bag" thing. Call it a GAD (Grip Augmentation Device). Less than $100.

Might be worth a $200 stamp...

Custom II
01-10-2015, 12:58 PM
Might be worth a $200 stamp...

Meh... I'd rather not have my edc piece become an NFA item. Granted, I travel across state lines pretty often.


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Inner Light
01-10-2015, 01:07 PM
I believe it's been stated here that anything that goes into the grip gap would make it an attachable stock and so NFA.

How about something the slides over the grip, along the lines of those rubber grip add on's like Pachmyr?

Custom II
01-10-2015, 04:21 PM
How about something the slides over the grip, along the lines of those rubber grip add on's like Pachmyr?

I think unless you can just pull it off, such as having a "toe" that slips into the grip gap, you'd be in legal gray areas.

I still like the idea of using magnets. Stable, yet can be pulled apart without any difficulty or delay of needed.


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CaptBeach
01-15-2015, 12:01 PM
This, injection molded glass filled polymer, add some additional material to the grip portion that wrapped about 75-80% around the circumference of the grip that was a tight friction fit with a re-positionable grip tape in the inside that you could then squeeze onto and snaps into place around the G34 grip to hold firm with your hand. The part weighs in at 5 oz and is not designed to be fitted/attached mechanically to the pistol, made to fit into the TIB bag and pulled out, fitted when needed...make it long enough that even when you choke up on it the slide would not give you a black eye...or mold a stop piece onto the top rail to prevent said black eyes...add a MagPul VFG to the Glock Light Rail...RMR'd, with a Threaded G34/35 barrel in 9mm or a 357 Sig...wow...and when the NFA gets struck down add a G18 Happy Switch...NOW THAT WOULD BE THE CATS ASS...

http://www.warriortalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=40953&d=1419366236

TFA303
01-15-2015, 01:18 PM
This, injection molded glass filled polymer, add some additional material to the grip portion that wrapped about 75-80% around the circumference of the grip that was a tight friction fit with a re-positionable grip tape in the inside that you could then squeeze onto and snaps into place around the G34 grip to hold firm with your hand. The part weighs in at 5 oz and is not designed to be fitted/attached mechanically to the pistol, made to fit into the TIB bag and pulled out, fitted when needed...make it long enough that even when you choke up on it the slide would not give you a black eye...or mold a stop piece onto the top rail to prevent said black eyes...add a MagPul VFG to the Glock Light Rail...RMR'd, with a Threaded G34/35 barrel in 9mm or a 357 Sig...wow...and when the NFA gets struck down add a G18 Happy Switch...NOW THAT WOULD BE THE CATS ASS...



But VFG makes it NFA, right?

Though I think that a sufficiently bulky weapon light might well serve as a foregrip without actually being one.....

kjrobinson1
01-15-2015, 02:02 PM
Man, I want this to exist!!! I'm already setting funds aside.

Shotgunwillie
01-15-2015, 02:10 PM
I think y'all are over thinking the forward grip. Try putting some pressure on the front rail of your Glock. It flexes, a lot. Enough to contact the slide. I imagine that putting too much pressure on it will put the slide in a bind and cause malfunctions.

Trench
01-15-2015, 02:58 PM
I have been looking for a way to add extra accuracy if I have to shoot past a family member taken hostage. This looks like it. A drop away pistol non-stock is a perfect compliment for an RMRed Glock.

If you make it non-NFA, I will buy one.

I will buy another if the first one is everything I need it to be.

I like the way you people think.

Cosantoir
01-22-2015, 08:04 AM
Use a small pin on the inside of the "taco" --- that mates with the lanyard hole on the Glock --- to locate it in the taco with some precision. As long as it's kept just barely long enough to fit into the lanyard hole, it should still allow the stock and pistol to fall free of each other when the user relaxes their grasp.

bassbones
01-22-2015, 04:22 PM
A surefire light makes for a nice improvised VFG because of the oblong sides.

JB

Svo
01-23-2015, 01:02 PM
This has me interested. I have come up with an idea of how to do this very effectively. Now I just have to spend money I didn't know I wanted to spend so badly. This could be done in the most effective way (ballistically) with large frame Glocks. Small frame would be nice but would never get close to the horse power of cartridges that only feed in large frames.

kjrobinson1
01-23-2015, 01:41 PM
This has me interested. I have come up with an idea of how to do this very effectively. Now I just have to spend money I didn't know I wanted to spend so badly. This could be done in the most effective way (ballistically) with large frame Glocks. Small frame would be nice but would never get close to the horse power of cartridges that only feed in large frames.
I'm already shopping for a large frame glock in hopes that this becomes a reality!

Trench
01-23-2015, 04:21 PM
I have money put aside for this already.

Now the only thing I need is for it to exist.

red-it
05-07-2015, 12:18 PM
Bump

bassbones
05-07-2015, 04:33 PM
Ive been in the lab with this for the last week......hope to have two prototypes by Sunday. The ideas have been there, just the time and material have been a problem. I'm sure I'm not the only one working on this.....I hope.

JB

Trench
05-07-2015, 04:41 PM
God Bless you, Son.

You are doing The Lords work.

ss58
05-07-2015, 04:52 PM
I dunno….let the arrows fly. If you want a rifle have a rifle. This all seems a little ridiculous to me. WTF do I know?????

Whats the point? My RMR Glocks can get me all the accuracy and distance I need.

Yondering
05-07-2015, 10:06 PM
Whats the point? My RMR Glocks can get me all the accuracy and distance I need.

But what if you could get a little more? Would that be a bad thing?

red-it
05-08-2015, 05:24 AM
I dunno….let the arrows fly. If you want a rifle have a rifle. This all seems a little ridiculous to me. WTF do I know?????

Whats the point? My RMR Glocks can get me all the accuracy and distance I need.

Someone said its about want not need.

EDELWEISS
05-08-2015, 06:00 AM
OK once again THIS ISNT A RIFLE but IT IS MORE THAN A PISTOL. Its a small extra piece of gear that multiplies the effeciency of your pistol. It gives you support when nothing else is available. It drops away when you need the pistol for up close fast response AND its not a TAX item. Its something that will probably never be needed but when it is needed you will probably be glad you have it. Yes a RMR makes your G26 a 100 yard gun but maybe just maybe this makes your GAT a head shot at 100m or an eyeball at......

NOW will somebody please make one and send me a copy so we can test the shite out of it.

blastjv
05-08-2015, 06:52 AM
I dunno….let the arrows fly. If you want a rifle have a rifle. This all seems a little ridiculous to me. WTF do I know?????

Whats the point? My RMR Glocks can get me all the accuracy and distance I need.

I'd say that you have a point, but the same can be said about most things we do. The same comments could probably be made about the RMR vs just sticking with irons (though I think there's a greater degree of benefit with adding the RMR than adding the "stock"). This is just another item to help maximize the potential of the EDC pistol. Honestly, I think most folks would agree that for the times when this stock would be useful, a rifle would be even better, but this is meant for the times when you really need a rifle, but you unfortunately only have your pistol and your sneaky bag (which is probably 99.9% of the time for even the most dedicated among us).

ss58
05-08-2015, 06:59 AM
OK. I'm all about want not need. Carry on, nothing to see here.

DutchV
05-08-2015, 07:39 AM
Stocked pistols have their niche. And while I don't think it's worth the hassle of making a registered SBR out of a Glock, I'm certainly interested in where this project goes.

CaptBeach
05-08-2015, 08:14 AM
Stocked pistols have their niche. And while I don't think it's worth the hassle of making a registered SBR out of a Glock, I'm certainly interested in where this project goes.

Well can you imagine for a minute an SBR'd G34 size slide with an RMR and a GIGGLE SWITCH? Long Slide G18 anyone?

Seadragon
05-17-2015, 05:06 PM
Ive been in the lab with this for the last week......hope to have two prototypes by Sunday. The ideas have been there, just the time and material have been a problem. I'm sure I'm not the only one working on this.....I hope.

JB

Progress? Pics?

bassbones
05-17-2015, 07:57 PM
Very sorry.... Last weekend was Mother's Day and this weekend I was replacing the floor in the bathroom from where my fat ass mother-in-law broke the toilet and didn't tell anybody so it leaked for a week before I saw it.

3 day weekend next week........

JB

Seadragon
05-18-2015, 01:34 AM
Very sorry.... Last weekend was Mother's Day and this weekend I was replacing the floor in the bathroom from where my fat ass mother-in-law broke the toilet and didn't tell anybody so it leaked for a week before I saw it.

3 day weekend next week........

JB

As they say here Down Under, 'no worries'! Standing by!

Snowman45
05-18-2015, 06:49 AM
bassbones;
Yeah, I'm also quite interested in what you come up with. I think this is a concept worth investigating.

bassbones
05-18-2015, 08:00 AM
There are 4 designs on paper....they could all be failures!!

JB

glocked
05-18-2015, 12:06 PM
I tried one with a spare Magpul buttpad for a MOE stock and a carbon fiber arrow shaft..... Thus far a failure. Back to the drawing board.

bassbones
05-19-2015, 06:15 PM
I'll be using thermoplastic and possibly 1/2" conduit......but one design has a happy stick for a stock and can be adjusted using the mag catch.....may not be strong enough though.

we will see

JB

HUMPHREY
05-21-2015, 02:51 PM
Really interesting to see this concept develop as this thread progresses. Can't wait to see what prototypes y'all come up with! I'd sure be down for at least one if it eventually gets made!

fidalgoman
05-21-2015, 03:24 PM
Coastal, I don't understand the text diagram, but I will have to go to a physical prototype at some point. Its slow at the office so I'm ideating a bit. Here's a dual bar design...needs tweaking as the top can move closer to the slide, but don't want interference. This will require some CAD time and I'm just spitballing still so I'm not investing in too much time.

41078

Without the padding

41079
Personally this idea tweaked a bit for cheek rest and made of polymer gets my vote. If one were ever wanting to NFA the thing or lived where it did not matter some kind of grip wrap or even duct tape would do. Just planning for those contingencies don't forget to add a QD mount upper near the pistol.

glocked
07-29-2015, 01:42 PM
Batshit crazy pricing from these folks.... Cheaper to just SBR than this.

http://www.recoilweb.com/usa-1shot-non-nfa-butt-stock-for-your-handgun-69131.html

John Chambers
07-29-2015, 01:46 PM
That is gayer than Obama sharing a tandem bike with Justin Bieber.

Custom II
07-29-2015, 01:50 PM
That is gayer than Obama sharing a tandem bike with Justin Bieber.

I don't know. While the price is steep, it's on the market, and appears to be a functional design.



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blastjv
07-29-2015, 02:08 PM
I don't like it (ugly and WAY too bulky for what we're discussing here), but it does employ one idea I had wondered before about suggesting here - it wraps around the side to the front and back straps and so presumably stabilizes againt muzzle flip a bit better.

Red Ryder
07-29-2015, 03:27 PM
"the enemy of a good plan is a great plan"....if I REALLY felt like I needed one, this is the ONLY choice now.
To me, it should be sleeker, not sure why the thumbhole design, but cheek weld seems good. No reason it has to be over engineered like this; the only tricky part is fitting to the grip, so a slimmer version in polymer for $199 would be a Gen 2 I could get enthusiastic about.

Warped Mindless
07-29-2015, 03:39 PM
You can buy a RONI glock carbine kit for 300 bucks and it would work way better IMO. Google it.

Gabriel Suarez
07-29-2015, 05:07 PM
I'd rather carry a home-sawed off rusty Mini-14 while wearing pink crocs than buy a RONI.

Inner Light
07-29-2015, 06:09 PM
I'd rather carry a home-sawed off rusty Mini-14 while wearing pink crocs than buy a RONI.

Me too…. :nono:

Warped Mindless
07-29-2015, 06:15 PM
I'd rather carry a home-sawed off rusty Mini-14 while wearing pink crocs than buy a RONI.

I just recently found out about these things. Whats wrong with them?

Custom II
07-29-2015, 06:19 PM
I just recently found out about these things. Whats wrong with them?

Flimsy, generally shoddy.


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Warped Mindless
07-29-2015, 06:24 PM
Flimsy, generally shoddy.


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No wonder the price is so cheap. Im going to continue to look for a decent glock carbine then.

Custom II
07-29-2015, 06:39 PM
No wonder the price is so cheap. Im going to continue to look for a decent glock carbine then.

Why? An SBR'ed Uzi or Scorpion will fill that roll far better than trying to jury rig a Glock in any type of housing.


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mike135
07-29-2015, 07:07 PM
In regards to the 1Shot product, I'm trying to understand how the wrap-around design works... are they giving it some flexibility so it tightens up against the grip as you squeeze it and then when you let go it releases the gun so it's not "attaching" in a way that gets ATF worked up? From one video on their site it sure looks rigid, so then the only thing keeping everything tight is the palm pressure on the side and not the finger pressure front to back...? Looks interesting enough that it'd be nice to see somebody get their hands on it and do more than talk about how it makes accurate shots easier.

WarGoat
07-30-2015, 06:23 AM
No wonder the price is so cheap. Im going to continue to look for a decent glock carbine then.

Please see my review (I wrote about it a few times on my blog, but this is the best starting point): http://shortbarrelshepherd.com/caa-tactical-roni-glock-enclosure-review/

If you want something very small with Glock magazine compatibility, I strongly recommend the MasterPiece Arms 930DMG series.

In other news, I have asked for a T&E copy of the APS USA1Shot. We'll see how it works.

DogDoc
07-30-2015, 07:26 AM
Sounds to me like Gabe is going to make a complete "Glock" pistol at some point. It'd be nice if it had some sort of hole/groove/knob as an insertion point for the sort of apparatus we've been talking about. Engineering the thing with the pistol as the starting point instead of the "not a stock" as a starting point would be a whole lot easier.

By the same token, maybe OST could add a modification to the frame to accept such a device as an option in their frame modification menu.

Doc

Warped Mindless
07-30-2015, 12:03 PM
If you want something very small with Glock magazine compatibility, I strongly recommend the MasterPiece Arms 930DMG series.



That with a folding stock added to it is EXACTLY what im looking for. Thanks a bunch.

Svo
07-30-2015, 09:59 PM
Oops.

fish78
08-01-2015, 06:33 AM
Try this: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/07/31/usa-1shot-non-nfa-pistol-buttstock/

EDELWEISS
08-05-2015, 09:17 PM
I caught a glimpse of this while I was out west. Yep its a Fd Up design BUT its a design that made it to market and seems to have approval from the boyz in Wv. Yep its waaaay to expensive and Yep it may not work the way WE want but again its on the market.

Personally Im thinking it might be worth a try. Im thinking if the stupid M4 stock is removed and perhaps replaced by just a A1 buffer tube, then it might be more useable. Ultimately I think there were better designs discussed here.

CR Williams
08-06-2015, 10:37 AM
That with a folding stock added to it is EXACTLY what im looking for. Thanks a bunch.


44145

Only difference with 930 is the threading on the barrel.

EDELWEISS
08-06-2015, 12:14 PM
Guys Im a fan of the Masterpiece MAC--mine is a full size "MAC" thats SBRd and uses STEn mags its a great mini SMG but its NOT a STOCKED PISTOL. A Stocked Pistol is a "everyday" pistol that you can add a stock to when needed. The Masterpiece guns are NOT "everyday" carry pistols, maybe close but not the same or interchangeable. I also have a SBRd VZ61 Skorpion. Its another great mini SMG and even has a belt holster but again its NOT an everyday carry pistol. I love both of them but they are BAG guns-yes small bag guns just NOT holster guns

The real Stetchkin could be a carry gun just like a G17 or G35, now add a stock that can be carried separately and you have 1+1 that equals 200+ meters. Think about that the next time your in the mall....

bassbones
08-06-2015, 03:41 PM
Im still working....I swear....but the kids are making a big transition from home school to public school and mama's got a new job and things have been crazy around here for months now.

the 1shot looks easy to make with a vacuum mold and thermoplastic....might add that to the list....but I like mine better. Mine will break down and fit almost anywhere in 3 pieces and won't look like a "gun thing". I had several other designs.....all failed. I'm also modifying a crosman pistol stock.

be patient....anybody can do this.....I"m not an engineer I'm a bass player!!!!!!!! Jump in the water and get to work with me!!!!!

JB

bassbones
08-06-2015, 03:43 PM
By the way Edelweiss.....there was another post asking "where is he"......hope your just busy like me! It's obvious your a precious WT commodity.

JB

glocked
08-07-2015, 10:05 PM
Im still working....I swear....but the kids are making a big transition from home school to public school and mama's got a new job and things have been crazy around here for months now.

the 1shot looks easy to make with a vacuum mold and thermoplastic....might add that to the list....but I like mine better. Mine will break down and fit almost anywhere in 3 pieces and won't look like a "gun thing". I had several other designs.....all failed. I'm also modifying a crosman pistol stock.

be patient....anybody can do this.....I"m not an engineer I'm a bass player!!!!!!!! Jump in the water and get to work with me!!!!!

JB

Exact opposite here. Going from public to homeschool. But still hectic and have backburnered my "not a stock" idea.


Also glad someone actually understood my idea with the crosman stock.

Yondering
08-07-2015, 10:17 PM
I happened to come across one of those Crosmann stocks today. I really like the concept. I wonder about cutting the entire grip off that stock, and attaching a kydex "taco" that would be held on a Glock grip by grip pressure alone. Hmmm...

glocked
08-07-2015, 10:19 PM
I happened to come across one of those Crosmann stocks today. I really like the concept. I wonder about cutting the entire grip off that stock, and attaching a kydex "taco" that would be held on a Glock grip by grip pressure alone. Hmmm...


ding, ding, ding! Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

My idea is similar but involves the backstraps for gen 4 guns after removing the side and bottom tabs that allow them to "click onto" the unmodded gun, thus making them non attached.

bassbones
08-08-2015, 06:36 PM
I think if you "click" in to anything....your walking the plank.....now the kydex taco....that's more ATF friendly.

JB

WarGoat
08-09-2015, 09:19 AM
I've got one coming to me on T&E -- any specific questions about it? Maybe I should start a new thread.

EDELWEISS
08-09-2015, 12:55 PM
I've got one coming to me on T&E -- any specific questions about it? Maybe I should start a new thread.

Bro in my mind, it first has to work, then it has to be easy to use (put on / take off / stay on when gripped), then it has to be easy to carry off the gun. From the looks of it, Im thinking it fails the last part.

So how convenient is it to take along on trips to the mall (especially when you have other stuff you need to buy or return or carry like diaper bags etc?

red-it
08-09-2015, 08:44 PM
like diaper bags etc?
E, is this a tell?

CR Williams
08-10-2015, 05:43 AM
I've got one coming to me on T&E -- any specific questions about it? Maybe I should start a new thread.

I know you won't be able to actually try this but does it look like it can be trimmed to cut or ground to make the wrap-around at least thinner if not to remove it and just leave the backstrap contact? Thing looks entirely too thick and bulky as-is but when I consider it and a dremel or sander I see some possibilities.

Oh, and I don't suppose they would tell you what about that makes it worth 340.00 would they?

EDELWEISS
08-10-2015, 09:33 AM
E, is this a tell?

Hahahahaaaaaaa NO!; but I will say I used that ploy in the past, it ranks right up there with a buddy of mine a VietNam Vet in a wheelchair who had jury duty and almost wheeled himself into court with a G21 on his side. Just in time he remembered and slipped into the public restroom where he took off his Glock and sat on it. They "wanded" him but of course the wheelchair set off the wand and they let him through--best part was he didn't have a CCW permit. As for the diaper bag nothing stops a rental cop at an amusment park like a smelly diaper on the top of the bag.

So for you young guys-think out of the box......or maybe in the bag?

glocked
08-10-2015, 11:01 AM
ding, ding, ding! Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

My idea is similar but involves the backstraps for gen 4 guns after removing the side and bottom tabs that originally allowed them to "click onto" the unmodded gun, thus making them non attached after trimming.

emphasis & clarification added

EDELWEISS
08-10-2015, 11:50 AM
emphasis & clarification added......after removing the side and bottom tabs that originally allowed them to "click onto" the unmodded gun, thus making them non attached after trimming[.....

Can you shoot it as a pistol with that modification? Im not sure Im understanding what you are suggesting

blastjv
08-10-2015, 12:16 PM
I read it to mean he's planning to modify the removable part of the back strap so that it no longer can lock onto the frame and then use that as a platform to attach the 'stock' to so that it would fit against the frame, but not actually 'attach' or 'click' onto to the frame.

Yondering
08-10-2015, 01:03 PM
Might work OK, but those backstraps are pretty flexible. A similar shaped part in aluminum would be great though.

glocked
08-12-2015, 12:51 PM
blastjv read it correctly.

DogDoc
08-12-2015, 04:16 PM
Might work OK, but those backstraps are pretty flexible. A similar shaped part in aluminum would be great though.

I don't know anything about 3-D printing, but it seems like you must be able to "scan" something and then produce it. Maybe a backstrap could be modified (clips removed) "Scanned" and then "printed" into something that could be fastened to a brace.

Doc

Scottman
09-05-2015, 12:25 PM
what are the http://www.recoilweb.com/usa-1shot-non-nfa-butt-stock-for-your-handgun-69131.html selling for? doesn't look like they are available. They show a carbon fiber model at .5 pounds that would be interesting with the AA glock .22 convo kit.

What do the regular models weigh? length? How does this fit into the PDW discussion with a one source .357 RMR glock?

EDELWEISS
09-05-2015, 02:43 PM
what are the http://www.recoilweb.com/usa-1shot-non-nfa-butt-stock-for-your-handgun-69131.html selling for? doesn't look like they are available. They show a carbon fiber model at .5 pounds that would be interesting with the AA glock .22 convo kit.

What do the regular models weigh? length? How does this fit into the PDW discussion with a one source .357 RMR glock?

I thought they were supposed to sell for $300+ not sure about availability. As for use as a PDW, I think the concept has huge merit. Im not sure about this actual design as it looks rather clunky. If its too large it wont be carried when needed. The ability to add 2 extra points on contact (hand hand cheek shoulder) greatly increases the hit potential BUT it only works if you will carry it....

WarGoat
09-05-2015, 03:48 PM
They have gone completely dark -- I was supposed to get a unit for T&E a month ago but it never showed up. They also removed the G26 and G19 as compatible models, and the Web site states that new pricing is coming soon. I've reached out to them twice since my initial phone conversation and they've yet to respond.

EDELWEISS
09-05-2015, 04:01 PM
They have gone completely dark -- I was supposed to get a unit for T&E a month ago but it never showed up. They also removed the G26 and G19 as compatible models, and the Web site states that new pricing is coming soon. I've reached out to them twice since my initial phone conversation and they've yet to respond.

Hmmmmm? If I had tin foil I might start making a fedora.... I suspect though its a case of not being ready for production issues. The pics in RECOIL make it look even clunkier than the initial pics, and dear God, why did they think cammo was a good idea? Its bad enough they went the buffer tube/M4 stock route instead of a simple sturdy design

HAWKNRIFLE
09-29-2015, 04:23 PM
Hmmmmm? If I had tin foil I might start making a fedora.... I suspect though its a case of not being ready for production issues. The pics in RECOIL make it look even clunkier than the initial pics, and dear God, why did they think cammo was a good idea? Its bad enough they went the buffer tube/M4 stock route instead of a simple sturdy design

I have a some little birds talking to me on this. Yes appears demand is exceeding production at this point... They have a couple of different models/designs available.... when they get production up to par.

Paper Shredder
11-18-2015, 08:22 PM
I have gone through a few rough breadboards and arrived at this over the past year. The cut outs minimize the bulk of the wrap, allowing the hand to conform to the grip a bit better.

I'm sending the hand unit to be 3D printed. I will bend aluminum stock for the "stock" portion. I've cut out some cardboard to work with LOP, offset angle (to get the sights eye level with a sparse cheek "weld").

I will report back after a range trip and final assembly of the prototype. I have no real commercialization intent for this... but could be talked into a small production run or any SI collaboration in part or whole.

45710

45711

45712

apamburn
11-18-2015, 09:01 PM
I have gone through a few rough breadboards and arrived at this over the past year. The cut outs minimize the bulk of the wrap, allowing the hand to conform to the grip a bit better.

I'm sending the hand unit to be 3D printed. I will bend aluminum stock for the "stock" portion. I've cut out some cardboard to work with LOP, offset angle (to get the sights eye level with a sparse cheek "weld").

I will report back after a range trip and final assembly of the prototype. I have no real commercialization intent for this... but could be talked into a small production run or any SI collaboration in part or whole.

45710

45711

45712

YESYESYESYESYESYESYES.

I'll go in.

Yondering
11-18-2015, 09:28 PM
Sweet! Nice work.

One thought - it looks like that would put the sights/RMR below your line of sight. Easy to fix with different bends in the aluminum part though.

apamburn
11-18-2015, 09:31 PM
Sweet! Nice work.

One thought - it looks like that would put the sights/RMR below your line of sight. Easy to fix with different bends in the aluminum part though.

Or cheek risers. Good accessory to get people to keep on coming back...

blastjv
11-19-2015, 01:59 AM
Nicely done! I wonder about the angle of the "butt pad" section, but I'm sure you'll work that out once your prototype exists in the real world. I am very interested in this and would certainly buy one when they become available.

osagemarine
11-19-2015, 03:35 AM
I'm in for a couple if you decide to have some made!

coastalcop
11-19-2015, 04:40 AM
Yup, Id be in for a couple myself,

EDELWEISS
11-19-2015, 05:34 AM
Looks like a money maker Bro! Better set up the PayPal and Square account now....

glocked
11-19-2015, 06:17 AM
I'm up for trying one.

Housertl
11-19-2015, 08:03 AM
How hard would it be to modify the CAD file for the grip portion to other pistol models? I want one of these for my Steyr!

Paper Shredder
11-19-2015, 11:33 AM
It may evolve to a more universal design. I'll keep the tribe updated as this project comes to life.

coastalcop
11-19-2015, 11:36 AM
Shredder,

Let is know if startup is needed. Wont step on Gabes toes, but initial costs may be offset by the tribe ;)

Paper Shredder
11-30-2015, 04:58 PM
Update:

3D printed prototype is weak. Needs to be tweaked more. I also got a new perspective on 3D printing materials from the shop. I've been under the premise that ABS was the only resin, but options are greater now with it being so much more ubiquitous.

Stay tuned, I'll bend stock tonight and get some better LOP indicators.

45912

45913

EDELWEISS
11-30-2015, 05:50 PM
Looking good!

Paper Shredder
11-30-2015, 06:06 PM
Ok got to refine.

Someone said that cheek weld and sight alignment would be a potential. Yes, it's 1" too low. Will address in gen 2.

Don't need the both side taco grip, only rear portion and one side towards the right side.

Injection molding may not be the way to go. Kydex may be the best option.

Also, length should be for G17 full grip and protrude below mag in the back for bigger hands, but still have ability to strip mag from sides.

45914

Danneskjold
11-30-2015, 06:42 PM
Don't need the both side taco grip, only rear portion and one side towards the right side.

45914

What about lefties?

Paper Shredder
11-30-2015, 06:46 PM
Oh no... It's the Devils hand! Just kidding. I have to go through at least 5 more iterations. I don't know if I can make it really universal or if it needs to be tailored for each model and lefty/righty

Scottman
12-01-2015, 01:18 PM
Will be most interested when you have versions ready to go !

keep it up

apamburn
12-02-2015, 09:23 AM
It looks great.

I look forward to seeing where this goes!

apamburn
12-02-2015, 09:25 AM
I second the concern about having the grip on only one side; if it compromises ambidexterity then there should be a grip on both sides.

Paper Shredder
12-18-2015, 08:16 PM
Live fire tomorrow... Non blue gun of course! I think it may have to be a kydex arrangement. I've gone through a few 3D prints and unless I get to a final design that is CNC milled ABS or Polypropylene, the 3D prints are not very strong.

I had to buy a blue G17 due to my G17 being chopped to a 19L. I'll prob use it as my master for kydex forming.

46198

The top bar is parallel to the slide when fully gripped. Cheek weld is much better with the bend. Line of sight is right on.

ETA, white marks on be part is from welding the plastic with Acetone.

steve_k
12-18-2015, 08:20 PM
Looks like you could mount a spare happy stick inside the brace.


Ok got to refine.

Someone said that cheek weld and sight alignment would be a potential. Yes, it's 1" too low. Will address in gen 2.

Don't need the both side taco grip, only rear portion and one side towards the right side.

Injection molding may not be the way to go. Kydex may be the best option.

Also, length should be for G17 full grip and protrude below mag in the back for bigger hands, but still have ability to strip mag from sides.

45914

Paper Shredder
12-18-2015, 08:36 PM
That's a thought... I think if the entire deal was molded out of plastic, it could be done with snaps (think bicycle air pump mounts). It's a longs ways away, but prove it out and I can get to a solid, simple design first, then refine and add to

EDELWEISS
12-21-2015, 09:02 PM
There IS a SMG that uses a spare mag as a stock. The PP 2000 uses a Glock like 20 and 44rnd mag and theres an option to use the longer mag as a stock of sorts. I like this idea but I have no idea how to form plastic to make it work....

46224

R. Lafayette
12-22-2015, 04:38 AM
Sort of an aside, but I have heard tell that Glock GLR-440 shoulder stocks collapse relatively easily during actual firing of the weapon. Does anybody know how true that is or isn't?

whirlibird
12-22-2015, 06:41 AM
Paper Shredder, note there is a dimensional difference between real and blue gun.
Almost .040" thinner on my G19 dummy.

Paper Shredder
12-22-2015, 06:46 AM
Thanks. I'll caliper it today and compare, although mine seems like they molded it off a G17 master... Even has the serial number of the master.

whirlibird
12-22-2015, 07:24 AM
Thanks. I'll caliper it today and compare, although mine seems like they molded it off a G17 master... Even has the serial number of the master.

Same here, when the polymer cools it shrinks.
Talked with Ring's at Shot Show in 14, it is what it is, one just has to live with the shrinkage.

apamburn
12-22-2015, 09:25 AM
Are you developing this specifically for g17 or for g19 too? I'm hoping to see something for the g19.

jaowens
12-22-2015, 10:48 AM
it is what it is, one just has to live with the shrinkage.

This is what I tell my wife too

Paper Shredder
12-22-2015, 11:02 AM
This is what I tell my wife too

The door was wide open on that one!!

That could be a classic Michael Scott "That's what she said" joke.

whirlibird
12-23-2015, 05:39 AM
We got over a foot of snow yesterday, there's shrinkage everywhere.

Paper Shredder
12-23-2015, 07:38 AM
Its modeled now for G19, but I think G17 will cover both. I think G26 would be too small. But I haven't had a chance to live fire test yet... Christmas chores sidetracked me last weekend.

Paper Shredder
12-27-2015, 02:58 PM
Update:

Live fire successful. Did not poke my eye out from the slide, but interesting findings.

1). It is indeed VERY stable. I was able to get 2" groups at 25 yards. I know some may scoff and probably can demonstrate that free standing and unsupported, but I fired at fairly decent rate of fire of 1 per second and was able to put the entire G19 mag into a green man X ring target. All center forehead grouping as well.

2). Need to lengthen LOP. I had trouble focusing with the fat stock Glock sights and the gap between the posts were very large due to being so close to the eye.

3). This would be perfect for RDS application. I would say anyone could be confident in eyeball accurate shots from 25 yards with minimal training if a RDS was used. I think my system will finally get the Suarez treatment now. Been planning for awhile and although I haven't pulled the trigger yet, I think 2016 is the year for it.

4). The recoil was very soft. I was surprised that my fragile prototype put up with the abuse, but now I know where I need to strengthen and as well as probably explore a kydex version.

Overall, pretty good initial shakedown. Will need to refine for function and durability.

EDELWEISS
12-27-2015, 03:03 PM
GREAT! I cant wait...

DogDoc
12-27-2015, 03:09 PM
I'm ready to beta test whenever you're ready to sell one. :)

Doc

WarGoat
12-28-2015, 07:47 PM
Cool stuff! Please keep us posted.

BearMBD
12-28-2015, 10:41 PM
This project sounds great. I wonder if the 19 sized grip would fit a 30sf? If not I'm sure the Jude's could be heated and corrected.

I am in, when it is ready, if you decide to sell and hopefully not just proof of concept.


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Yondering
12-29-2015, 11:34 AM
The 30SF grip is a similar length, but wider; that might not let this 19-sized piece fit.

Scottman
12-29-2015, 04:49 PM
good work

BearMBD
12-29-2015, 06:40 PM
Thanks Yondering.


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Fjefman
01-21-2016, 04:25 AM
Any update? I just finished reading this entire thread and I'm really curious to see the conclusion.

Jeff