Investing in Firearms

[OmahaTacticalTrng]

I was approached by one of the M.D.'s that I work with about some investment advice he received from his financial planner. He's told my friend to start buying two things, gold and guns. Knowing my background and the fact that I helped him pick out his CCW weapon, he's asked me for my input. I've got a pretty good list in my head already, but I want some input from the tribe before I present it to him. His qualifiers are as follows:

1) he wants to purchase weapons he can shoot and enjoy while he owns them
2) he wants things that could be banned in the not so distant future, as he knows this will drive up value
3) no NFA stamps for full auto, although he was asking about supressors
4) he's open to a mix of weapons/accessories/ammunition
5) $5,000 budget (give or take)

So what do you all think?


Thanks for the input,

OTT

[Mark Oyler]

I wouldn't buy gold or guns for investments at this point, but that's me.

$5,000.! Buy a Glock 17/19 TSD RMR,and a tier 1 M4. Both with a mass of magazines. Buy 2,000 rounds for each, in addition to the rounds needed for the nearest CRG and RGF classes listed. Expound on the investment and take a TMCO class.

Don't over emphasize NFA stuff. Get the basics, get your skills solid, and leave investment portfolios to masters of that craft. Much like SI instructors tend to be masters of theirs.

[clintofio]

AR-15's and Magazines, AK's and Magazines, Glock 17, 19, and/or 26 and plenty of 17 magazines and happy sticks. Several cases of 5.56, 7.62x39, and 9mm ammo. There ya go. Buy them at good prices. Shoot them. Sell them when you want for almost what you paid anytime, or a lot more than you paid if there's ever a ban or a threat of a ban. Maybe buy a few spare AR lowers for good measure as those seemed to command the highest premium (those and magazines) during the crunch this winter.

[Mark Oyler]

If he's not interested in training and only investment minded, follow the money! Just because a we have a commie-in-chief in the white house, doesn't mean mass amounts of money aren't flowing certain places. Research things or find a financial advisor to make things happen. Investing in guns and gold at this point is silly.

[Rambotito]

I'd suggest that he needs a new financial planner. Guns and gold can be solid investments, but he really should do more homework before investing his hard earned money.

I'd suggest books like "The Intelligent Investor" by Ben Graham to start with.

[WinstonSmith]

Great financial advice ... A few years ago.

[clintofio]

Guys, he's an MD and only investing $5K in guns... seems quite reasonable to me. He didn't say he was putting all his eggs in the gold and guns basket, but I think all of us would agree theirs a place for both in a well-rounded pirate's portfolio.

[Pokeguyjai]

Screw gold, buy ammo when the prices come down.

[Goodspeed(TPF)]

Great financial advice ... A few years ago. Agreed, Winston. Now is not the time to buy Weapons/Ammo as an investment. I would fire my Advisor if he gave me that advice "right now". Seriously?!?! This makes no sense.

[Mjolnir]

I would say mags and lowers. Ar mags, Ak mags, common handgun mags (Glock, Sig, etc.). You could get a lot with 5k, but I would advise he "round out" his arsenal first, then he won't be one of those complainers when the commies begin locking stuff down. Plenty of ammo for all of it.


Boards don't punch back.

[Grey Man]

Stuff People Wanted Post Sandy Hook

1. BCG groups
2. Stripped lowers
3. upper receivers (16 inch mid length)
4. pmags with windows commanded a premium, USGI still were sold for 30-45 easily in January.
5. ammo specifically 5.56, 9mm and .22
6. .22 conversion kits for AR 15's

[WinstonSmith]

Guys, he's an MD and only investing $5K in guns... seems quite reasonable to me. He didn't say he was putting all his eggs in the gold and guns basket, but I think all of us would agree theirs a place for both in a well-rounded pirate's portfolio.

Sure there is, but it just seems like the advisor is reading a trade rag from 2008.

[Grey Man]

also keep in mind that buying guns for the sole purpose of selling them later is right on the bleeding edge of breaking some laws, you need an FFL to sell guns basically. Its a fine line between I bought a sig 556 and shot it a bit and decided I wanted to get an AR 15 so I sold it to joe bob on gunbroker and bought joe jon's AR from a LGS vs I bought ten guns from an FFL then resold them on gunbroker for 200 bucks a piece profit over the next 3 months. Obviously this applies to guns and lowers, not BCGs/magazines/ammo, etc.

[paranoid]

Quality modern assault weapons are a solid investment in terms of investing in the ownership and possession considering our current environment.

[bae]

Guys, he's an MD and only investing $5K in guns... seems quite reasonable to me.

I'll just say that most of the MDs I've encountered have not been the world's best investors.... :-)

$5k is chump change in a real portfolio. It's not even worth his time to set up a new class of investments ("firearms") for that small amount - the mental energies and logistics are better spent elsewhere. Buy stock in a reasonable firearms-related business that is reasonably-valued, and call it a day, if you want to participate in the investment side of the firearms industry, not just speculate by stashing some shiny toys under your bed.

Now, $5k for fun firearms to use, "rationalized" as an investment, is another matter :-)

[choirboy]

While 5K is not investing, you guys are over consumed by the guns we love to shoot. Think Civil War to WW I, both military and civilian guns. I wish I had every Colt, Winchester and Remington that went through my hands. These are also likely the last guns to ever be banned.

You guys are also correct on ban likely stuff increasing. I fell for AKs in the 80's and the only guns that I never had to mess with were Norinco/Polytech. Keep your numbered boxes, all original mags, bayonets,slings and cleaning gear with a sales slip. Those $250 guns are now $2500 guns. Nothing else that I bought in quantity increased 10 fold in that time.

If I was buying to INVEST I would be thinking Peacemakers not Glocks.

Choirboy

[clintofio]

Selling some stocks and buying some gold right now would be the very definition of selling high (stocks at all time highs mainly due to loose monetary policy not a strengthening economy) and buying low (gold just had a giant down move correction of 30-40%). I don't think it's as stupid as some of you think it is to buy gold right now. In fact, look at the percent change in stocks versus gold in the next 12 months and I think Gold's going to be way ahead for the reason stated above. Sell high. Buy low. = Smart. I'm definitely not saying go all-in, but I do think it's wise to get some gold and silver when it's slammed down from big corrections, just like I think it's wise to buy stocks after a huge market crash as well.

[WinstonSmith]

Selling some stocks and buying some gold right now would be the very definition of selling high (stocks at all time highs mainly due to loose monetary policy not a strengthening economy) and buying low (gold just had a giant down move correction of 30-40%). I don't think it's as stupid as some of you think it is to buy gold right now. In fact, look at the percent change in stocks versus gold in the next 12 months and I think Gold's going to be way ahead for the reason stated above. Sell high. Buy low. = Smart. I'm definitely not saying go all-in, but I do think it's wise to get some gold and silver when it's slammed down from big corrections, just like I think it's wise to buy stocks after a huge market crash as well.

I'll agree with that. But guns are still "high".

[Saladin]

Quality modern assault weapons are a solid investment in terms of investing in the ownership and possession considering our current environment.
Warning, Long Winded!

And always have been. For well over five decades now.
My "investment" has been totally incidental in truth. The "value" seen is a result of decreasing valuation of the dollar and increasing scarcity of the item.

But, I've only looked at the "value increase" as a form of an incidental increase while having the use & enjoyment of the firearm.
Not as a form of income. I've been successful in other avenues for my income flow.
This has allowed me the practice of Not selling any of the firearms I've obtained over the years.

This I've looked at as a form of a "Investment Portfolio" if you will, but it's more of a form of self-rationalization for my expenditures over the early years (read those years as low,limited income, two & three jobs at a time) raising a family. Granted, not easily done, worth the effort in the long run. But, my son,daughter,and grandkids are well provided for with my "investments", as well as other material things.

I would only suggest that firearms are a long term "investment" and that they be "used" as intended. Not as safe queens. Those here that know me are aware that I use my "gear". I run it hard, but care for it well.

I, personally don't have a use for the "buy ,hold,sell" thing. If I did I would have opened a shop years ago. Guess I just don't like people overall!
I'll rephrase that, I know I don't like dealing with the majority of the "Gun Community" as it's called. I refer to it as "Ego Driven Ignorance" and " proud of it" mentality. (rant off,sorry for that).

I use,and train with all the guns that I obtain. When something better for "the job" pops up, I'll evaluate it myself,and maybe give it a run. If it works out,then whatever it has replaced go's into Tier 2 status,not sold off. (Example: moving ahead to the FS2k moved my AUGs to Tier 2, not to the "Market"although I could have made quite a bit considering I've had my two A-1s for twenty+ years)
And Tier 2 moves to Tier 3,and so on.
(Wonder what level that puts my M-1s and Carbines at ?)

As I said earlier, it's a form of "investment,retirement program". But not with intent, it just worked out that way. It's not "Easy", but that has never been part of my personal goal-set!

Anyway, with that said ,it boils down to buy at a fair market price, enjoy and build skills with it (them ?),maintain, and in the long run you come out way ahead,more so than most any other "investment" that is out there!

FWIW, Your Mileage WILL Vary with Personal Habits and Use!

[clintofio]

I'll agree with that. But guns are still "high".

Some are, but I'm seeing some guns at "normal" prices again, as in no premium/markup versus what they were priced at pre-panic. Guns definitely aren't "low", but some are "normal", which is about the best we can hope for a long time I suspect. I don't see guns as a good investment at the moment, but they're certainly good to own and know how to use, and can be profitable as investments next time the gun grabbers gain steam.

[clintofio]

Saladin, great post. That's the same strategy I'm going to try and take with my firearms acquisition from here on out as well. It's a solid, long term approach, that includes a lot of enjoyment along the way and a nice inheritance for your children. If you provide solid training and appreciation along the way, I think they'll properly appreciate them and continue the tradition.

[Grey Man]

That is how I have been buying guns and ammo for years. When my son is old enough to legally own weapons, I will supply him with a starter set. It won't diminish my own capabilities at all. And the purchases have been on the assumption (perhaps not too far-fetched) that he will be unable to obtain these things on his own, due to cost, supply, or laws.

Been doing the same thing, its our duty to our progeny at this point.

[Saladin]

Clint & Doc John,
That's the ticket.

One of the biggest "interest accumulated " items of long term benefit are the true additions to my "Tribe" that are derived from this path.
This is an often overlooked return on the initial "investment". And beyond placing a price upon!

I will be the first to admit that in my early days I did have periods of doubt regarding my decisions to practice "my plan". That was when I began to work multiple jobs in order to live up to my responsibility as a Father, Husband, Warrior.


Once again, Set long term Goals, Prioritize, Drive On!

GFT!

[bc45]

ammo may be dropping price but I predict another spike in price this year.
if ammo, at least it won't be California munis

[pangloss]

I think I would buy mags instead of firearms. During the 1993-2003 ban mags appreciated a lot more than guns--at least for Glocks. Also, think about the percent increase in market price during this most recent panic. Glock mags were $25-$30 pre-panic and over doubled in price. AR mag prices really shot up too. By contrast, Glocks were ~$500 and jumped to ~$700, maybe a bit more, but they didn't double in price. Add this to the reduced transaction hassle in selling mags and the complete elimination of the possibility of being accused of straw purchasing, and it seems like an easy decision to me. My guess is that 15 years from now I'll be able to buy a G17 but probably not a happy stick.

[Saladin]

I think I would buy mags instead of firearms. During the 1993-2003 ban mags appreciated a lot more than guns--at least for Glocks. Also, think about the percent increase in market price during this most recent panic. Glock mags were $25-$30 pre-panic and over doubled in price. AR mag prices really shot up too. By contrast, Glocks were ~$500 and jumped to ~$700, maybe a bit more, but they didn't double in price. Add this to the reduced transaction hassle in selling mags and the complete elimination of the possibility of being accused of straw purchasing, and it seems like an easy decision to me. My guess is that 15 years from now I'll be able to buy a G17 but probably not a happy stick.

Mags for re-sale would seem to be merely short-term, small gain. You would have to buy,hold & sell a lot of mags to equal the increase of value in say a nice Belgian made FAL-Para has seen in 20 or so years.

One would think that owning any firearm over a significant time (6-12 mos) is enough to meet the burden of anything of"strawmanish" consideration.
In writing ATFE has made the determination with "homebuilt" firearms that a year of ownership is enough to defend against "Mfg w/wo a License"charges. As to less hassle with mags, that would seem to not be the case in more and more locations. The mags restrictions are as much of a burden as the firearm transaction,or would seem so.
The transaction hassle is what you make it (location dependent).

Bottom line, buy what firearms you want,enjoy and learn from their use. And for the long term smile knowing your "investment" is "appreciating" as
you use and enjoy.

FWIW

[Netpackrat]

Guys, he's an MD and only investing $5K in guns... seems quite reasonable to me. He didn't say he was putting all his eggs in the gold and guns basket, but I think all of us would agree theirs a place for both in a well-rounded pirate's portfolio.

This. $5K in firearms is not investing for financial gain; it is the start of a quality personal armory.

[Jim H]

I tend to think gun prices are still a bit too high for an investment. If I was intending to turn them (and not planning to keep them) around I'd wait until congress goes out of session and/or there's no imminent threat of bans. Then sell next year right after the next media circus on a shooting or proposed law; and hope a new law doesn't make your investment unsellable. But I don't buy guns to sell, I buy what I want to shoot.

As for gold, the last time I looked at trends, the cost of gold seemed a bit high compared to the cost of silver over the long term. If I was investing in precious metals I'd buy $1000 of silver before I'd buy $1000 of gold.