Apple Inc- A Multinational, Pirate Corporation

[Speed is Life]

Good for them. Shit Hot.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/21/apples-tax-strategy-portrayed-by-senate-subcommittee-as-a-unique-absurdity

[Gabriel Suarez]

Excellent!!!! "At issue are incompatibilities between U.S. and Irish tax laws. In Ireland, only companies that are managed and controlled in Ireland are considered tax residents. Apple Operations International is incorporated in Ireland, but is not managed and controlled there. But in the U.S., tax laws are based on where a company is incorporated, rather than where it is managed and controlled. Apple has a total of three offshore corporations that allow it to reduce its effective tax rate to just 15 percent, which is less than half the U.S. effective tax rate of 35 percent, Levin said." EXCELLENT!!!!!! Fair share my arse! GO APPLE GO!!

[clintofio]

Rand Paul made some good comments:

Excerpts from Sen. Paul's comments a few minutes ago, in which Apple executives were summoned before a Senate subcommittee:

"I am offended by a government that uses the IRS to bully groups such as the Tea Party but I am also offended by a government that convenes a hearing to bully an American business."

"I am offended by the spectacle of dragging before the Senate, executives from Apple using the brute force of government to bully one of America's great success stories."

"I frankly think the Committee should apologize to Apple. I frankly think Congress should be on trial here for creating a bazaar and byzantine Tax Code that runs into the tens of thousands of pages, for creating a Tax Code that simply doesn't compete with the rest of the world."

"I say, instead of Apple executives, you should have brought in a giant mirror if you want to see who is responsible."

To the Apple executives here, I apologize for this theater of the absurd. I will do everything in my power to make our tax code simpler and more competitive."

"If there is anyone to blame here, it is Congress and the tax code it created."

[WinstonSmith]

Can't blame them for playing the rules of the game better than everybody else.

[NateR]

"The real issue is the billions in taxes that it has not paid, thanks to offshore tax strategies whose purpose is tax avoidance, pure and simple," Levin said.

"It's unacceptable that corporations like Apple are able to exploit tax loopholes to avoid paying billions in taxes," McCain said.

These a------s wrote a tax code so elaborite and obscure that not even the IRS understands it, and now they're crying because Apple is playing by the rules they created? F--k 'em.

N

[WinstonSmith]

"The real issue is the billions in taxes that it has not paid, thanks to offshore tax strategies whose purpose is tax avoidance, pure and simple," Levin said.

"It's unacceptable that corporations like Apple are able to exploit tax loopholes to avoid paying billions in taxes," McCain said.
These a------s wrote a tax code so elaborite and obscure that not even the IRS understands it, and now they're crying because Apple is playing by the rules they created? F--k 'em.

N

How are those commentators considered to be "conservative" or "pro-business" when they make comments like that. Their opinions are on their sleeve: they don't like Apple because Apple tends to be an eco-liberal company.

This and the commentary on the "marketplace fairness act" (which is a name straight out of Atlas Shrugged if I ever heard one) ... if Amazon, Apple, or whomever plays the rules as written better than anybody else, they are the winner. McCain and Levin sound like whining losers.

[bc45]

The federales try to create a better tax trap but keep getting beat at their own game.
Apple probably hasn't been donating enough. What about all those "tax" breaks for GE?
Oh thats right, Imelt kissed federale butt while the Apple Ceo hasn't shown obeisance to the "messiah".

[Web Services]

Good for Apple, I suppose with all that money being saved, they can afford to charge 140% more for their subpar products than competitors.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Good for Apple, I suppose with all that money being saved, they can afford to charge 140% more for their subpar products than competitors.

Par, OverPar, or SubPar is irrelevant. If I could charge 140% for a WASR 10 that cost me $150, I would. The market sets the price by guys going in and paying for those products. I admire Apple's position far more than I do Microsoft and Intell, even though we do not use Apple.

[Grey Man]

These a------s wrote a tax code so elaborite and obscure that not even the IRS understands it, and now they're crying because Apple is playing by the rules they created? F--k 'em.

N

Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”

- From Atlas Shrugged Pt 2

[TeamStone]

Ludwig von Mises has good material on tax "loopholes," including this from the 1950s:


What is a loophole? If the law does not punish a definite action or does not tax a definite thing, this is not a loophole. It is simply the law. . . . The income-tax exemptions in our income tax are not loopholes. The gentleman who complained about loopholes in our income tax . . . implicitly starts from the assumption that all income over fifteen or twenty thousand dollars ought to be confiscated and calls therefore a loophole the fact that his ideal is not yet attained. Let us be grateful for the fact that there are still such things as those the honorable gentleman calls loopholes. Thanks to these loopholes this country is still a free country . . .

and


Capitalism breathes through those loopholes.

[bc45]

I wonder if Al Gore was part of the brain trust on the tax strategy.

http://wizbangblog.com/2013/05/06/al-gore-man-of-the-people-gets-paid-over-1-million-a-day-to-sit-on-apples-board-125000-per-hour/

[olywa]

Good for apple. Glad to support them.

[Stoic]

I would suggest that this is probably a far more common state of affairs for large corporations than the news implies. Apple is in the spotlight for the moment, but Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, and dozens of other companies are regularly getting summoned before various governments to answer for their creativity at avoiding taxes.

Oh, and f**k John McCain and Carl Levin.

[WinstonSmith]

I would suggest that this is probably a far more common state of affairs for large corporations than the news implies. Apple is in the spotlight for the moment, but Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, and dozens of other companies are regularly getting summoned before various governments to answer for their creativity at avoiding taxes.

Oh, and f**k John McCain and Carl Levin.

Agreed on all counts. Take the Atlas Shrugged quote from Grey Man and realize that somebody at Apple probably just needs squeezing right now. Somebody with "pull" is probably frustrated, so in a grand game of "I'm taking my ball/toy/game and going home", we have this bit of attention on Apple at the moment.

Good for Apple. If the law allows what they did, the most it will cost them right now is time and a little PR bounce back. There are simply too many big companies with strong lobbying power playing these rules to the best of their ability for the doors to be shut completely.

[Sam Spade]

So can we expect CRG Dublin?

[Gabriel Suarez]

Nope. Dublin requires someone live there be an officer. There are other ... warmer places. As soon as my organization passes a point I have set, see us move our "corp office" overseas. Right now its not cost effective.

[Al Lipscomb]

A lot of theater. Most of those "loopholes" were bought and paid for by someone with deep pockets. You could write a tax code that would be 100 times simpler, less expensive to collect, and pull more money from the "wealthy" in about one week. That is not the way it works.

[Mjolnir]

So happy to be sending this response from my pirate iPhone.


Boards don't punch back.

[Prometheus]

Rand Paul made some good comments:

Excerpts from Sen. Paul's comments a few minutes ago, in which Apple executives were summoned before a Senate subcommittee:

"If there is anyone to blame here, it is Congress and the tax code it created."



In case anyone wants to see it:
http://youtu.be/hi0m0w1kBOQ

Good for Apple. I'm not a fan of their products, if for no other reason than how they stifle the end user but kudos to them for practicing good business.

Great Atlas Shrugged quote. I watched part two last night. For those who can't/won't read a 1,000+ page book, watch it. The book is 1,000 times better than the movies (part one and two anyway, three is in the works still) but some people just don't read. Sad as that is.

Given all the crap with the IRS and personal federal income tax, why are we celebrating their 100 year anniversary this year? Why don't we abolish them? American made it to 1913 and had roads, an Army, Navy, Marine Corps, schools.. schools that were the best in the world, #1 not the crap we have today (ranking in the 20's).

Abolish them. Replace them with nothing and stop stealing.

It stealing 100% of someones labor was slavery and immoral. Why is stealing 10, 15, 33%+ not still wrong and immoral?

[dbaierl]

Just thinking out loud here.

With all the scandals and basics distrust of the .gov
I wonder if public opinion will change now that they are going after a popular business like apple.

The funniest part of the whole argument is the gov hasn't said they broke any laws. Yet they are hassling them. For there fair share. ????
If the general public cant see the idiocy. now that everyone has received a tax increase this yr. We are truly screwed.

[back2basics]

I want to start a petition to boot McCain out of the Republican Party. He wouldnt be the only name on the petition but man has he been on a roll lately.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Funny all the Apple bashers. You could replace the word "Apple" in their sentences with Suarez and it would be like old times.

[Vigilant]

Funny all the Apple bashers. You could replace the word "Apple" in their sentences with Suarez and it would be like old times.

Gabe, I'm an Apple basher too, but who can argue with the OP? They, as much as I dislike their products, have personified the "pirate" ways of doing business that you now preach, and I can find no fault with their methods, only their product!
Since starting my own company, I have evolved my methods and practices in doing business to suit MY needs, while at the same time taking care of my customers, and keeping as much of my work($$) as legally possible. If I had an accountant with a grayer set of glasses, I would use him even more than my current, and IF I had Apple $$'s, my shit would be in Ireland too!

[bae]

I dislike Apple. Their campus was down the road from mine, and caused all sorts of traffic nonsense, and metro-sexual hipsters drool over their stuff.

Nonetheless, they make me a lot of money with their stock, their stuff Just Works without me spending any time on it, and they run Unix under the hood, like Ken and Dennis (pbut) intended...

So, go go Apple!

[Grey Man]

As an IT nerd I doth not like apple but they sure do make the hipsters run and leap for joy . . . just so long as they do it on the other side of town . . .we'll be ok.

[Gabriel Suarez]

I think it is a narrow minded thing to judge a company by its social state or politics. There is only one waqy to judge it and that is by its profitability. For example...I despise Walmart and do not shop there...but I own Walmart Stock (WMT 77.20). Same for UPS, and Starbucks (UPS 88.75, SBUX 64.25). Additionally...perspective I learned from a very wealthy client - It is government's job to steal as much of your money as possible for their stupid projects. It is your job to avoid them doing that. It is a game. You play it better, you get rich...you play by the spirit of the rules, and you will die poor.

[USMC-03]

It is government's job to steal as much of your money as possible for their stupid projects. It is your job to avoid them doing that. It is a game. You play it better, you get rich...you play by the spirit of the rules, and you will die poor.

The ultimate sin against any looter is to overcome the obstacles they set between the fruits on an individual and the fruits of their labor. In the end it's not about rich or poor, it's about control of people; destroy the free market, eliminate the opportunities for individuals to create wealth wealth of their own, and subjects are created from citizens.

[Doug Little]

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am an Apple tech geek. I have been 100% Apple in my technology infrastructure since 2007...

That said, one of the things that makes Apple so successful is the quality of their execution. People talk about how their products 'just work'. That is because of their attention to doing what is necessary to make it work as flawlessly as possible...

Apple is also very effective at creating a product that is high end and exudes quality. If you look at the fit and finish of their products, they are as perfect as they can make them. Again, quality of execution.

It is not surprising to me that Apple figured out a way to utilize the current tax code to their maximum advantage...again, quality of execution.

And...if you look at the parallels of the Suarez Companies relative to their competitors...you start to the the same difference and advantages that SI has.

Apple and the Suarez Group of Companies elevate their respective games...making it very difficult for others to compete. To me...that is what makes the difference.

[WinstonSmith]

The gummint ought to be like a private sector corporation. They should have to make a case and "prove" to the shareholders as to why a program has the merit to justify borrowing funds, or raising taxes.

They should have to show performance and finances on a regular basis, and if the program manager isn't hacking it, he or she should be removed. Return to the shareholders should be primary, and if a private sector option is more cost effective, it should be immediately adopted.

Half the bureaucracies would be gone.

That defies the very definition of "government".

[WinstonSmith]

Just came across this. Quite fitting.

31332

[Gabriel Suarez]

And we have one there now...given to me by a good friend SF guy that flew it over his camp in the land of the Saracens. It is the ONLY flag allowed to fly at the Suarez Group. The ONLY ONE.

[Grey Man]

Sadly with IOS 6.1.4 they've turned from "anti establishment" into . . . THE MAN! Just clarifying them hiding from taxes = cool. Their tech = not so cool.

[baker]

Good for Apple. The only gripes I have about their products is the planned early obsolesence of their small electronics, by not including a simple mini-sd card slot.
Smart marketing by them, bad deal for the buyers.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Sadly with IOS 6.1.4 they've turned from "anti establishment" into . . . THE MAN! Just clarifying them hiding from taxes = cool. Their tech = not so cool.
Do better than them and your comments will have greater validity.