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View Full Version : Going under...and perhaps not coming up in Hondo



Fulanito
03-28-2013, 06:50 PM
In short on Honduras:

I was assigned there for 4 years. I lived on the economy. I have gone back many times since then for contracts and social reasons. Anything can be bought, anyone can be silenced...or made to speak, the boarders are so porous that flying unicorns dressed in pink pajamas could go through everyday unnoticed. Narcos fly directly over the capital of Tegucigalpa every couple of days and the Air Force doesn't have the capability to scramble fast enough to do anything about it...nor do they have the will. Hell, its how their economy is sustained and would be counter productive to do much about it. Anyway, what idiot goes in through a main port when it is actually much easier to pass through a punto diego (blind spot)? Hell, you dont even need to pay anyone for this. Kids cross from Nicaragua everyday to attend school through the river bed at Las Manos. The guards just watch. Also La Fraternidad, La Mosquitia and the boarder at El Salvador at Amatillo and Guatemala at Chiquimula and Agua Caliente. All easy to cross with or without papers. Depends on the business. Water ports out of Puerto Cortez, Choluteca and Puerto Lempira are ridiculously easy. Likely the no brainer method is to go by private boat from Cortez to Belize and end up in Barranco or Punto Gorda. Did it, been there. Easy. Of course I was on the job and had certain privileges at the time, but easy enough to see that thousands of others do it all the time on a regular basis. Remember: Water ports are your friend as it is actually hard to find someone to stamp your papers. Legitimate border checkpoints and registered airports are for the schmucks who aren't very inventive and have no connections. I always have to giggle when I hear or read about someone getting rolled up in an airport. Why the hell would you go through an airport on purpose if you were doing something that wasn't on the up and up, were being a drug mule...or simply attracted attention. I guess they deserve to get rolled up, hassled, extorted, interrogated, jailed......Darwin at work.

Im very much a fan of the north coast. La Ceiba and Trujillo. However that is where folks "try" to get lost. In fact so many try you can see all of the not so well hidden, on the streets and in the bars. These are more the romantic expats pretending to live life on the edge. Ceiba and Trujillo are good places to go for supplies (in and out) that are not too high on the radar. Better yet, have a friend hire a driver to go in and out for you. Then have the friend drop your supplies somewhere for you. Ceiba, Trujillo...and Choluteca to the west are at least not as high up on the list as Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula. Hey, I spent a night in the main prison in La Ceiba. Long confusing story that turned out fine. Not as bad I thought it would be...just no food and my team and I slept in shifts, shoulder to shoulder with one man awake all night. Would have needed a better plan for the long term, but manageable for anyone with the stomach for it.

Getting lost / going under in La Mosquitia in the northeast is so easy it happens by accident all the time. I have had to locate planes, crews equipment and individuals there that went down. This is the quintessential place to find wreckage covered over with Tarzan vines and tribesman worshipping the fuseloge. Don't laugh...I have seen it. Yep, as recent as 14 years ago. Funny enough: Go to the museum in Trujillo to see World War 2 planes that went down. Also remnants of German boats that wrecked along the coast.

The islands off the north coast: Roatan, Utila and Guanaja. Nice cute, austere, touristy places to stay for a while but one can become very board on an island. I have spent time on each of them and find them WAY too small. It is virtually impossible to be a foreigner there off the radar. I liken them to a small high school...everyone knows everyone and everyones business. And of they dont actually know your business, what is made up about you can be worse...more interesting. In SPanish we have a phrase "Pueblo pequeño, infierno grande" ...small town, big fire. Lots of chisme (rumors). Not where one goes to hide. Rumors are your enemy when boring and nondescript is the goal.

The military is right wing and quite conservative, just as we trained them to be. They actually protect the constitution with their lives, imagine that! Im not saying they are professional, but they have the right idea. The cops, especially in San Pedro Sula shoot, shovel and shut up everyday. Dirt bags disappear all the time...but so do good guys. Money here buys you time and space. An operational envelope, if it were. You can be left alone or enjoy the company of your choosing. Depends on your needs and desires. Spanish and cash are a must. Lawyers....ha, ha, ha, ha, ha..... Used to matter when the Maya hotel in the 80's and 90's was the spook central. Now you only need a lawyer to enter into honest ventures, which are few and far between. Now Central America is soooooooo off the radar, it doesn't register with the USG. Used to be a USG hotspot, now it is just an embarrassment, a US policy black mark in history, failed made up drug war, kidnap and extortion haven. There is good and bad in this depending on the side you are on.

You can bring in a tax free vehicle every 5 years. You can ship all your household goods tax free. Pick a weapon and it can be found...legal or otherwise. Getting residency is easy for an AMCIT and HO citizenship is not that much of a hassle.

Your money will go far in Hondolandia. All depends on the lifestyle you are trying to achieve.

If you are looking to go off the radar and perhaps never return and are really up for a LAST turn of the century style adventure. Honduras just may be the place. I loved it there and tried to stay on for another tour. Sadly duty called me to Surinam for the following 3 years. Now that place was actually the absolute end of the F-ing world on the lip of the Amazon. Again...another story for another time.

Final note: Chaos, failing institutions and corruption are good to get lost in. they cant keep track of themselves, how the hell will they keep track of you?!? The trade-off is comfort, convenience, good medical care, good schools for the kids, job contracts for you etc... Going under is done for a lot of reasons...choice, work, privacy...or your are just plain old running from someone you don't want to be caught by. Whatever the reason, it CAN be done, but it does have its costs and it does take a toll over the long haul. A few years when you are in your 20's or 30's is one thing, perhaps romantic, pretty young ladies, lots of cash, drinks and guns. To live out your days like that is tiresome, lonely, isolating and not for the faint of heart.

A tired cowboy.....

Vigilant
03-28-2013, 07:37 PM
Spent several years there on the .gov dime, and have always thought that it would be where I would turn up when I "disappear"! I was partial to Quimistan, but San Cristobal (Copan Department) was more "worldly"!

Base Bleed
03-28-2013, 07:37 PM
Thanks for the heads up. Very, very, interesting. Are there enough pinche gabachos there to blend in with in the more urban areas? My crew is a bunch of day-glow Aryans who can only pass for Icelandic...I can roll as Euro trash. But that doesn't help my loved ones. I'm kicking tires because in a somewhat distant future, I believe I may have to move my clinic oconus. Hope not...but hope is a poor substitute for preparation. So, we are option shopping....and you had me at "USG doesn't care" :)

Thanks again.




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Vigilant
03-28-2013, 07:46 PM
Thanks for the heads up. Very, very, interesting. Are there enough pinche gabachos there to blend in with in the more urban areas? My crew is a bunch of day-glow Aryans who can only pass for Icelandic...I can roll as Euro trash. But that doesn't help my loved ones. I'm kicking tires because in a somewhat distant future, I believe I may have to move my clinic oconus. Hope not...but hope is a poor substitute for preparation. So, we are option shopping....and you had me at "USG doesn't care" :)

Thanks again.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HDDepending on where you land, plenty of fair skinned folks! Hell, we were heading back to Soto Cano/Palmerola once and ran across a bunch of college chicks with Texas plates at a popular lake with beach area!

Base Bleed
03-28-2013, 08:30 PM
Sounding better!
Thx!




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paknheat
03-28-2013, 08:42 PM
Great write up Fulanito, Thanx for posting it.


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Fulanito
03-28-2013, 09:12 PM
Native ethnic whites (Caucasians) comprise about 2% of the Honduran population. This means that overwhelming majority of whites in Hondolandia, at any given time, are either tourists (not many as it is certainly not on the top ten tourist destination list) or belong to an NGO, IO or are on diplomatic assignment. Read: Not part of the native white population.

Any of the aforementioned categories of non-native whites stand out like a sore thumb and attract attention. The are crime magnets....if they are seen. The US military is another stand out like a very big sore thumb, especially at Soto Cano / Palmorola....generally somewhere between 400 and 850, based on the fluctuating mission which is disaster relief and regional stability. There are no permanently station combat troops there. There have been, however, well received habitual agreed annual engineering exercises where roads, schools, wells and bridges are built. We saw a gap in this coop. when Tio Mel Zelaya was ousted. These exercises have always been done in conjunction with the US mil, HO mil and HO civ cooperation to enhance a interoperability and mutual respect that enable sustainable development for the host nation.

Looking Caucasian in Honduras is not "hiding in plain site", this is not deselection. Under means UNDER.

I hope this helps to add perspective.

Fulanito
03-28-2013, 09:27 PM
Thanks for the heads up. Very, very, interesting. Are there enough pinche gabachos there to blend in with in the more urban areas? My crew is a bunch of day-glow Aryans who can only pass for Icelandic...I can roll as Euro trash. But that doesn't help my loved ones. I'm kicking tires because in a somewhat distant future, I believe I may have to move my clinic oconus. Hope not...but hope is a poor substitute for preparation. So, we are option shopping....and you had me at "USG doesn't care" :)

Thanks again.




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In your case, especially if your Spanish is not native or near native, I would look at orbs. in which you could blend that suite your skill set. I might look at WHO (World Health Organization), Doctors Without Borders, CARE, PEACE Corps, USAID, PAHO, Salud Juntos, World Vision etc... All are there in varying strengths.

These wil get you off to a good start. I always recommend to friends and clients alike: Get there on a contract. Look around. Go back and rent for a while. Make a choice and either do it or not. But at least you will be better armed to make a decision

Base Bleed
03-28-2013, 09:45 PM
Thanks a million.

Appalachia has cemented the reality that oconus is a serious challenge. If the hillbillies can sniff you out. Then the camposinos can do it drunk and blind. However, depending on circumstances...any port in a storm. Hopefully, healthcare doesn't go where I think it will.

Of course, us pinche gabachos are always rich...it comes with looking so white.

The advice on hooking into a NGO or hospital is the best alternative to a individual clinic. But, the individual clinic is where the money is found.

Thanks again for the real deal. HO sounds perfect for low-pro...but for making real money as a ghost among shadows carries additional challenges.

God & Tribe

Fulanito
03-28-2013, 09:54 PM
Spent several years there on the .gov dime, and have always thought that it would be where I would turn up when I "disappear"! I was partial to Quimistan, but San Cristobal (Copan Department) was more "worldly"!

The younger, thin, lighter skinned gals in Copan are called las flores...flowers. Over 90% of the HO population is Mestizo. Mostly Spaniard blood mixed with Lenke, Pipil, Nahua and or Mayan blood. The native types are Lenke, Pipil, Nahua. These indigenous folks are generally smaller in stature, slightly broad chested, darker skinned folks with black coarse hair. The men don't even really grow beards. More Nahua, Lenke, Pipil blood = less hair for some reason. The ladies don't find the need to shave much...just not hairy folks....ah hell, thats another damn story. The mixed folks...the Mestizos are different looking, taller stature, trimmer, some bearded etc... The lightest ones in the areas of San Cristobal and Copan are slightly more of a genetic Euro off-set. Kind of an anomaly. Simply more of the Caucasian genetic bent. In this area, they are considered to be "prettier", especially by the darker indigenous population. It seems the European standard of beauty that appears on TV has effected even their opinions of themselves.

You will also see a heavy genetic European influence in Tegucigalpa and SPS due mostly to the Spanish who mined the silver in the hills of Tegucigalps. BTW, Tegucigalpa actually means silver hills. Anyway, once most of the indigenous populous was worked to death or caught any one of various Euro diseases, the Spaniards moved on and mostly abandoned the country. Today these hills that make a bowel surrounding Teguc. are fully denuded. Picked clear. This has sadly changed the climate in a measurable way and cause some pretty dusty, pollution filled months. For this reason a couple of months per year there is a haze that covers the city and the airport generally has very limited traffic. At this time all flights are routed through SPS. Many of the passengers then need to drive CA 5, which is the highway that connects to the north coast.

For cleaner living, I like Olancho, but be prepared to learn how to fight with a machete and wear cowboy boots. They still have some pretty good old fashioned gunfights to this very day. Oh yes, a fun time to be had by all....

For me, beautiful gals can be found anywhere in the world. All types, all shapes and sizes.... As Genghis Khan once said "every woman has something to offer".

Anthony
03-28-2013, 09:56 PM
Great thread indeed.

Fulanito
03-28-2013, 10:04 PM
Thanks a million.

Appalachia has cemented the reality that oconus is a serious challenge. If the hillbillies can sniff you out. Then the camposinos can do it drunk and blind. However, depending on circumstances...any port in a storm. Hopefully, healthcare doesn't go where I think it will.

Of course, us pinche gabachos are always rich...it comes with looking so white.

The advice on hooking into a NGO or hospital is the best alternative to a individual clinic. But, the individual clinic is where the money is found.

Thanks again for the real deal. HO sounds perfect for low-pro...but for making real money as a ghost among shadows carries additional challenges.

God & Tribe

Not a wealthy population in general so not much money to be made in the medical service, Im afraid...at least on the economy anyway. It is, however a plastic surgery and orthodontia medical tourism destination. Also lots of guys making money in dermo. and geriatrics. Although not my field, I believe it to be very competitive in these areas. Members of my nuclear family have had plastics taken care of there, pneumonia, dengue, pediatrics, orthodontia and various infections....as one would imagine. All done to good success. Anything important, if one has the money, is done in the US. Generally Miami as it is the gateway to all of LATAM.

Base Bleed
03-28-2013, 10:27 PM
Our clinic doesn't rely on locals, even here.

Med tourism is where I would take it. Without giving away too much online where I've run my mouth for years, I will shortly be the only MD in the world who is performing some particular procedures. So, location is important for traveler access. But, otherwise, location will be about my QOL...and my family's safety.

God & Tribe

Fulanito
03-28-2013, 10:50 PM
Our clinic doesn't rely on locals, even here.

Med tourism is where I would take it. Without giving away too much online where I've run my mouth for years, I will shortly be the only MD in the world who is performing some particular procedures. So, location is important for traveler access. But, otherwise, location will be about my QOL...and my family's safety.

God & Tribe

Nice! The niche market is where its at. Im sure it will work out just great.

My business works in a similar manner. Be the only guy who can do a certain thing, a particular way and you're in. I hate competition. Who, in theor right mind wants to work that hard? So, I found a piece of the biz that has little competition and requires hard skills that takes years to develop. Now I sleep pretty well at night.

Many parts of the security business are totally saturated with folks who have tried to be everything to everyone. Too much competition means lowering prices just to stay working. All the way to the point of "why even bother" because the risk outweighs the pay. I feel bad for a lot of the contractors that have come back from Iraq and will also be coming back from Afg with nothing really marketable. Being a static security guard, basic body guard or riding shotgun on a convoy are simply not high-end skills in demand in many markets. for the best of the best with lots of connections, maybe. But they will have some pretty tough competition for few decent paying jobs. When those few markets dry up we will have a bunch of folks with skills that are not readily absorbable.

H60DoorGunner
03-28-2013, 11:38 PM
I also did a tour there out of Soto Cano AFB, doing drug interdiction work throughout Central America. I've had a couple platoon sergeants throughout the years that married a Honduran woman, and moved down there on their retirement check. Once in a while i hear from them, and they're living like little kings. I would have to agree totally with your description. It's like the best little worst neighborhood I've ever seen. It's one of those places as you said that money can get you anything you want, and as long as you mind your own business, no one really bothers you at all. And as far as disappearing, Hondo is probably the most accessible and safe-ish place to do it in Central America, in as long as you've got some money and speakeny the lingeny.

H60DoorGunner
03-28-2013, 11:55 PM
...Appalachia has cemented the reality that oconus is a serious challenge. If the hillbillies can sniff you out. Then the camposinos can do it drunk and blind...


Hey now! We can do it drunk and blind too... :lol:

Appalachia is probably the toughest place to fit in in the United States if you're not from here. Our language, culture, and mannerisms are so different than almost anywhere else you'd have to work extremely hard to never let on that you ain't one of us hillbillies. If someone studied into a bit, they'd even find that while we might speak almost the same language, and use most of the same words, we construct our sentences in a different way. If I forced myself to not use phrases like "I reckon", and "right yonder", a professional linguist could pick me out of a vocal lineup. We might not be able to pick you out of a lineup, but we could definitely hear that you don't talk like the rest of us. The challenge is the same anywhere else, except in other countries you have to contend with not looking the same..skin color, hair color, facial makeup etc. If you've got a keen eye, even us from Appalachia have a slightly different facial makeup than people from other places. Being the "gray man" and fitting in where you don't belong is truly a challenge and an art form. My hat's off to anyone who's perfected it.

Fulanito
03-29-2013, 12:24 AM
H60,
Yes, the differences are very subtle. Most wouldn't pick up on the ever so slight differences and bone structure qualities of the typical Appalachian. One would have to study long and hard to see the delicate deviation from the norm.

2995129953

Fulanito
03-29-2013, 12:33 AM
As an afterthought, looking like any of the above may just be your best defense in Hondo. Who needs to blend in if you can be repulsive enough?

H60DoorGunner
03-29-2013, 12:37 AM
LMAO very clever :lol:
I wish there was a sarcasm font so I could tell you how few times I've heard this joke, and how funny it really is!....In all honesty I do find it a little funny. But, I'll go ahead and clear up the myths. The incest joke is blown way out of proportion, and is a holdover from a really long time ago. We take it just as serious as anyone else, and find it just as disgusting as anyone else. However, the there are quite a few snaggle toothed smiles, simply because of the lack of dental care and income in many areas. Even today, many areas of the Appalachians are on a poverty level akin to a third world country, and I wish I was exaggerating. To caveat all this though, I'd rather be hated for who I am, and liked for who I'm not. Poor and snaggle toothed or otherwise lol.

H60DoorGunner
03-29-2013, 12:37 AM
As an afterthought, looking like any of the above may just be your best defense in Hondo. Who needs to blend in if you can be repulsive enough?

I seen quite a few toothless grins when I was in Central America....just sayin

Nick Randall
03-29-2013, 04:57 AM
Interestingly Honduras happened to be in the main stream media news yesterday:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/27/world/americas/honduras-murder-capital


http://www.seguridadjusticiaypaz.org.mx/sala-de-prensa/759-san-pedro-sula-otra-vez-la-ciudad-mas-violenta-del-mundo-acapulco-la-segunda (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/27/world/americas/honduras-murder-capital)

michael
03-29-2013, 08:18 AM
But, I'll go ahead and clear up the myths. The incest joke is blown way out of proportion, and is a holdover from a really long time ago. We take it just as serious as anyone else, and find it just as disgusting as anyone else.

When I worked at a local Sheriff's Office in TN a few years back, there were two brothers who lived with their mother. There would be regular fights between them over who got to pork momma. Momma had cancer and is dead now, but the brothers used to really go at it if one failed to take turns like they agreed to. One actually stabbed the other because he stole his turn with momma.:dunno::lol:

Anthony
03-29-2013, 10:35 AM
Interestingly Honduras happened to be in the main stream media news yesterday:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/27/world/americas/honduras-murder-capital


(http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/27/world/americas/honduras-murder-capital)http://www.seguridadjusticiaypaz.org.mx/sala-de-prensa/759-san-pedro-sula-otra-vez-la-ciudad-mas-violenta-del-mundo-acapulco-la-segunda
Yes, Honduras has the highest murder rate in the world, - for a country not at war. - But it even exceeds many countries that actually are at war too!

Generally, Latin American countries are extremily violent compared to the USA.
Venezuela, Colombia and Brazil for example, all have murder rates that dwarf your own rate up there. - Many times more.
Brazil for example, has about 50.000 per year with a population of 200M.
37.000 odd last year just by firearms alone. - Compare that to the USA!

But those of us who live down here, know how to survive, how to live, and what not to do etc, to not get caught up in this violence.

Also (obviously,) is the fact that draconian gun laws in Brazil for nearly ten years now, have not reduced gun crime by the slightest, and gun crime has actually increased!

I was watching a report last week on TV about this. - On a channel like your FOX news (our version, - called BAND news,) where the increase was explained and the harse gun law change of 2003, was considered to be the problem.

The biggest news channel (equivelent to you CNN, - our version is GLOBO news,) would not carry such a story of course.

While stupid fights and shootings over 'fender benders' have gone down, because far fewer civilians are carrying guns these days, criminal activity has gone up, due to the assumption by criminals that their targets are probably unarmed.

Garloch
03-29-2013, 10:38 AM
When I worked at a local Sheriff's Office in TN a few years back, there were two brothers who lived with their mother. There would be regular fights between them over who got to pork momma. Momma had cancer and is dead now, but the brothers used to really go at it if one failed to take turns like they agreed to. One actually stabbed the other because he stole his turn with momma.:dunno::lol:

My life experience would not have been diminished in any way had I not read this.

Especially while eating lunch!

TFA303
03-29-2013, 12:08 PM
For me, beautiful gals can be found anywhere in the world. All types, all shapes and sizes.... As Genghis Khan once said "every woman has something to offer".

Related - How to Marry a Third-World Woman (http://fredoneverything.net/MarryAbroad.shtml) And Live Happily Every After--Somewhere Else

TrojanSkyCop1
03-29-2013, 01:49 PM
Sadly duty called me to Surinam for the following 3 years. Now that place was actually the absolute end of the F-ing world on the lip of the Amazon. Again...another story for another time.



Suriname was one of the last countries my Dad was assigned to for his economic consulting work prior to his premature medical retirement back in circa 1980. He was robbed at gunpoint in broad daylight in the streets of Paramaribo. Fortunately he escaped with relatively minor injuries and lived to tell the tale.