Novice hunter seeking WT advice

[Anthony_DuClare]

I realize that WT is not a hunting forum, but I have come to trust opinions here far more than elsewhere on the Internet, and hunting is certainly a part of the "warrior bon vivant" lifestyle.

Having wanted to take up hunting all my life (I'm 27), I finally got a good opportunity: my father-in-law and I took a hunter's safety class this past weekend, and he's good friends with a farmer who sees a lot of game on his property. That farmer has also hunted in the past, and could help us out. The area is south-central Michigan, and we will most likely be hunting deer and turkey, both of which are plentiful.

Since Michigan restricts rifle use to the UP and the northern half of the mitten, I'll definitely need a shotgun. Remington offers a 12 ga. 870 Express package that includes a 20" rifled slug barrel with rifle sights, and a 26" smoothbore with front bead and adjustable choke. This package seems to meet my gun needs for deer and turkey, respectively. Sound good?

I'm trying to keep things simple with clothes: for $70, I can get two sets of Swiss surplus jackets/shirts and pants. Layer as needed, add a blaze orange vest and watchcap/ballcap depending on weather, and my current boots, and call it done. Thoughts?

The topic of what to do after the shot was barely touched in the class. The instructors referred us to YouTube, which I found a bit disappointing. These are clearest videos I could find:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECdaKBbmGnU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewCVFkkyQC4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRjWMoew2gU

There's a definite attitude shift in the last one; the higher resolution is what I thought was helpful about it. The first one showed the incision being made from the top down, and the second two from the bottom up. It seems like top-down would be better, since as you're making the initial cut, you can accidentally go deeper than necessary without puncturing anything that could contaminate the meat. Opinions?

Anything else I should be considering?

[WinstonSmith]

There is more than one way to field dress game. The best way to learn is with an experienced helper with you. Find somebody who has done this many times before to go with you.

Your gear choice seems adequate. The 870 express line will work for what you are asking.

[BlondeGuy]

Before you shoot, find something on the ground or behind the deer whereby you would know the exact spot it was standing when you shoot.

Most of the time, you will not be able to get a clean second shot so be prepared to watch exactly where the deer leaves the area.

Even with a perfectly placed shot, a deer could still run off for a little ways.

With a good shot, the deer would either drop or run about 100 yards and bleed out.

If it does run off, immediately, mark with ribbon or toilet paper where it was standing and where it left the area.

You may want to wait up to 30 minutes to let is bleed out.

[BlondeGuy]

Turkey hunting is a completely different animal. They have better senses then any other prey so camo is extremely important.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4993699285174342&pid=15.1

You would also have to learn to "Talk Turkey". Check out The National Wild Turkey Federation for turkey hunting info.

But be warned, Getting into turkey hunting can become obsessive.

[tpevehouse]

A good local butcher shop that knows how to cut the meat is worth it's weight in gold. Steaks and back-strap are good, but it is the sausage and ground stuff that make it worth it.

[lukerust]

Top down for sure. Benchmade makes a gut hook zipper for around thirty dollars and that thing is super nice. I would make an incision at the top of the rib cage, use a zipper to open the cavity up by pulling towards the crotch and then do what the guy did in the second video to get further up in the rib cage. I think its a little easier to open the ribcage up more so you can get a good handle on the organs, It is a little easier with a saw then a blade. I prefer cutting around the butt but it is really easy to mess up. If you are just starting out i would get a good hand saw and just cut the pelvic bone out. If you go that route pull the guts and organs out but tie his pisser tube in a not, or u will get urine all over the meat. I have probably gutted and processed over 25 deer, a few elk, and a few antelopes. My grandpa has a lot of friends come down for deer season and these ol boys cant exactly gut a deer so i usually end up doing theirs, mine, and whoever else doesn't want to. A decent set of cutlery goes along way when processing and field dressing game. Thats just my 2 cents, hope it helps.

[choirboy]

I will add my two cents. As for deer, in rifle permitted areas use one if possible. Shotguns and slugs are important to match up in practice long before the season. Many of the sabot loads will be AK accurate to 100 yards. Others are a 50 yard proposition. Slugs drop much more than rifle bullets. If you are going to hunt from a stand putting out range markers and having a dope card taped upside down on your stock so you can glance at it is helpful. On turkey, PA is shotgun only in the spring gobbler season. I have had great luck with a standard high brass 2 3/4 load of #6 fine shot doing head shots only. Many guys like heavier shot out of magnum loads and aim torso.I have only had to fire twice at a turkey on few occasions. The follow up load in my gun is usually a magnum duplex.

I do not know if they still sell them, but the PA Game Commission used to sell books and tapes on dressing game. Brother Winston's advice of hunting with a buddy who has done it before is good. If there is a farm auction near you, buying and cleaning a few chickens and rabbits in the comfort of home is good teaching. While the meat cutting of a rabbit is different than a deer, the field dressing is very similar. While I cut most of my deer, getting the optimal use of the better cuts and knowing what to turn into burger is best done at a butcher shop where the deer can be hung for a week without freezing or getting dangerously warm. Some places will let you watch the cutting, but these guys are fast and do not spend much time talking about how and why you are separating muscle masses to maximize the yield of good cuts.

Welcome to the world of hunting. It is a valuable skill set which will serve you well if you every have to practice field craft against game that can shoot back.

I know Gabe does not want this to be a hunting forum so feel free to PM me if you wish.

Choirboy

[JPourciau]

An earlier thread with several good posts that may be of interest...

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=94141

[AlwaysVigilant]

The 870 combo is great but get the one that will use magnum loads as well...its just more versatile and effective with certain game...and it can chamber the shorter bird loads too, if you decide to try some fowl of flight like pheasant, quail, or doves.

[Jeremy]

As far as clothing and boots go, don't get too wrapped up in that. Being able to sit still and be quiet is more important that camo (although for turkey camo is more needed). I've been a few feet from deer without camo or fancy scent eliminating stuff. The most important thing is being comfortable and during firearm season that means staying warm and dry. Having personally been a light shade of blue, there is no price on dry and warm.

[ARodPDT117]

Wind is king with deer, but you want some camo for turkey. The best way to learn to field dress is by having someone help you out that knows what they are doing, a small bone saw for the hips can really make things. I always have a Wyoming saw in my pack but that is basically for elk, a little over kill for deer. Sagen makes a little bone saw that is perfect for deer and it has a protected tip so its hard to puncture the guts.

[Mjolnir]

Some great tips on here. As others have said, the sense of smell is the deer's hardest sense to over come. Watching the wind and hunting with it in your face (or downwind) is probably the hardest thing to overcome. As far as field dressing goes there are lots of good ways. The important thing is to open the deer up (let that venison begin to cool) and do your best not to puncture the guts. Your first time will always be a hack job, but that's ok it takes practice. Welcome to the world of hunting, where backstraps rule! Haha


Boards don't punch back.

[Ragsbo]

We have put a lot of deer in the freezer using various 870's so you should be go to go. My suggestion is to get an assortment of slugs and test fire to see which brand gives the best results. If the slug barrel is rifled you can use sabot slug (expensive), if it is not, use regular lead slugs. I don't know what type of land you will be hunting but I have made kills out to 100 yards with open sights and sabot slugs. Practice to see how your gun shoots and get an idea of how far to push it. Most likely the deer will not drop unless it is a spine shot. As recommended; mentally mark the spot you shot it and where you last saw the deer. There will be a good chance there will be little or no blood at the shot spot- but maybe hair. Trail it to the place where you last saw it. You should pick up blood. DO NOT push the deer, let it have time to lay down and die. I use orange surveyors tape to mark the trail. Be ready for a second shot as you trail as you might spook the deer or find it bedded but not dead.

As far as field dressing; one can show you better than tell you. Main thing is try not to cut the guts. If you do it will taint the meat if you don't get it cleaned off real quick. I have a cheap gutting hook that uses utility knife blades (so you can exchange them when one gets dull) and a cheap small saw for cutting the ribs. WARNING! If you are planning on mounting the head- do NOT cut any higher than the bottom of the rib cage until the head/shoulders have been caped out (get a professional to cape it!). You'll have to reach up inside the rib cage to get the heart and lungs out. Buy those cheap deer cleaning gloves= you'll be glad you did. They go all the way up to your shoulders and prevent you from getting blood and guts on your clothes. Also get a good pair of rubber gloves to wear over them. The cheap ones in the kit don't hack it! A good pair will fit tight and last through the job.

Camo is okay but not really necasary. Warmth IS! Also being able to sit still. As far as scent goes, around here we don't pay it much mind. The deer are use to having humans around (working farm, cutting firewood, kids playing out side etc.). Again it depends on where you are hunting and how isolated it is.

One other item I would suggest you get is called the Deer Handle. It is a plastic handle with a loop of rope about 6 foot long. It is the best thing I have found for dragging the deer out. You loop the rope around the deers antlers/head then use the handle to pull them. Drag them head first or the feet/legs will get caught on everything.

[Dr. Keith Seto]

I would recommend starting from the bottom of the rib cage and cutting downwards through the midline of the abdomen.

At least that's how surgeons would do it.

[Anthony_DuClare]

Thank you all for the pointers.

Many of you suggested hunting with someone who knows what they're doing the first time around. I'm pretty sure we have that covered by the landowner I referenced.


A good local butcher shop that knows how to cut the meat is worth it's weight in gold. Steaks and back-strap are good, but it is the sausage and ground stuff that make it worth it.

The in-laws have a relationship with a local butcher who processes game. I'll be sure to ask about sausage, etc.


I would recommend starting from the bottom of the rib cage and cutting downwards through the midline of the abdomen.

At least that's how surgeons would do it.

Good to know my "professional instincts" were right (I'm a Paramedic, planning to go for PA in a few years).

[Ragsbo]

Anything else you are wondering about just ask.

Best advice is to enjoy yourself! Take the time to enjoy the woods, being with nature as God made it. Enjoy the company of like minded others= the spirit of the hunt. And take plenty of pictures of what you kill; you will want to show it off (and we expect to see it!). And be safe; especially if you are hunting in an elevated stand. You don't bounce to well, especially on frozen ground. Use a safety belt!

And deer meat is great to eat! Some say it is healthier than beef but since most of them around here are grain fed and raised (I don't see how farmers have any crops left with all the deer eating it up) I don't know if it is or not. BUT I AM STILL EATING what I kill!

[New Generation]

As far as clothing and boots go, don't get too wrapped up in that. Being able to sit still and be quiet is more important that camo (although for turkey camo is more needed). I've been a few feet from deer without camo or fancy scent eliminating stuff. The most important thing is being comfortable and during firearm season that means staying warm and dry. Having personally been a light shade of blue, there is no price on dry and warm.

^^^This. There have been more dear killed by gents wearing hickory shirts, carhart pants and wool underwear than all the guys wearing camo combined. Also with field game a good sharp hatchet is invaluable. Instead of dulling your knife trying to split joints or a rib cage use the hatchet instead. After being gutted an Elk can be quartered using a hatchet in 15min a deer in even less time. Gut it, split the pelvis and rib cage, using your knife insert above(headside) the lowermost rib and cut all the way down to the spine and all the way up and through where the sternum was(do this on both sides). Using your hatchet split the spine ( between the vertebrae) where you made the rib cut with your blade. The animal is now broken in half. Now remove the neck, split the halves put them in game sacks and you are ready to start packing. LEAVE THE HIDE ON THE ANIMAL!!!! This is very important as it helps keep the meat clean. Nothing makes a butcher more uptight than dirty meat.

[tpevehouse]

Thank you all for the pointers.

The in-laws have a relationship with a local butcher who processes game. I'll be sure to ask about sausage, etc.


The best way to do it is to butcher it yourself. That takes time and a relatively high amount of trial and error. The benefit of the butcher is than they generally have better ingredients to cut the meat with and a wider selection of fats. Deer are extremely lean animals (even wild pigs are pretty lean) and you need to add some fat into the mix for your ground venison and sausage. If your wife isn't big on the gamey taste of the backstrap then cutting it right also helps tame that down.

If your butcher is good then he should have recipes of sorts for any kind of sausage and ground meat you might want.

[Ragsbo]

I use to take our deer to the butchers until it got to expensive and the meat we got back was nasty with hair/blood and who knows what on it. I could not be sure I got my deer meat back or got the guys who did field dress it or anything but dump it at the butchers. Since we use to butcher hogs growing up; we started doing it ourselves. Trial and error some but it ain't that hard. We de-bone it all, make roast out of the hams (rear quarters) save the backstraps and tenderloin for fry meat, use the front shoulders for fry/jerky meat. Everything else is de-boned, cleaned and ground up in burger. We do up to 6 deer a year. When we built our new garage after the tornado, we did it with butchering in mind. We know the quality of meat we have, we know where it has been, and we eat good!