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Gabriel Suarez
01-09-2004, 02:14 PM
I did not write this. Rather a student found it on a martial arts website and sent it to me. The concept is interesting.

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Beltfighting

The belt is among the finest of all improvised weapons. It is legal, always readily available, and devastatingly effective. It can be used at ranges from four feet to six inches, it is incredibly quick, and will leave welts or lacerations wherever it hits. Whipped in a blur and swung in a tight figure-8, the belt becomes an intimidating weapon. In skilled hands, it can easily defeat a knife, a club, or multiple unarmed opponents. It is a popular weapon, having been used in streetfights and barroom brawls for decades. It is often pulled in situations where a weapon is required, but drawing a knife or gun might be considered too extreme — while it is possible to kill with a belt, it is difficult to do so accidentally. To observe a beautiful display of beltfighting, you can rent Fist of Legend starring Jet Li (he uses the belt in many of his films).

BELT SELECTION:

There are two basic styles of belt — light and heavy. You will need to decide which style to favor, but you should strive for proficiency with both. The belts you choose should be comfortable, flexible, durable, stylish, and able to clear your belt loops without binding or snagging.

Examples of light belt would include thin leather dress belts and web belts with roller buckles. The belt should be durable as well as flexible. The buckle should be bare metal rather than encased in leather or other material. Square buckles with sharp corners should be favored over smooth rounded buckles. The thicker and heavier the buckle is, the more effective your strikes will be. Light belts are very quick; are effective for snapping at the face and hands; and are good for wraps, traps, and locks.

Heavy belts are typically wide leather belts, such as garrison or western style, fitted with a substantial buckle fashioned from brass, silver, or pewter. Optimally, the buckle should weigh about a pound. Large, square brass buckles, such as are found on garrison belts, may be sharpened along the edges or just at the corners (using a file and sandpaper, before honing with a whetstone). Whatever buckle you choose should be securely fixed to the belt. If it is simply held in place by a pair of snaps, stitching or super glue may be in order to prevent it from unexpectedly flying away. The heavy belt may not be as quick or as flexible as the light belt, and it is ill suited for fancy techniques, but the oversized buckle can be counted upon to deliver debilitating crushing blows. Used correctly, it can break bones with every strike.

Some people favor concho belts, which can do damage along their entire length. The ones that are segmented have the best flexibility. Concho belts, however, must be worn outside the belt loops to prevent snagging.

I have seen belts fashioned from motorcycle drive chains. These are often chrome plated and fitted with a special buckle. While these belts are indeed effective bludgeons, they are uncomfortable, inflexible, highly visible, and far too heavy for daily wear. . . besides, they make you look like a cartoon character.

Every month, your belts should be examined for wear. Belts that are exhibiting cracking or dry rot should be replaced.

DRAWING:

First, be aware that pouches, holsters, and clips (for knives or pagers) that depend on your belt for support may prevent your belt from being pulled free. Clips will invariably snag, but pouches and sheaths may simply drop to the ground. If you intend to use your belt as a weapon, and would like to be able to draw it quickly, do not attach anything to it.

You should be able to unbuckle and pull free your belt quickly with one hand. This will take hours of practice to perfect, so you can do so in a single fluid motion. Once freed, you will be grasping the buckle end. While the leather end can be used to slap with, and can even do significant damage if fitted with a decorative metal tip, it is advised to use the buckle as your primary striking surface. It is important to practice readying your belt less than a second after it has been drawn. Only after having gained proficiency at instantly drawing and readying your belt can it be relied upon to protect you.

RANGE:

The belt can be used at a variety of ranges, depending upon how many times it is wrapped around one’s hand. Wrapped not at all, but simply grasped in the hand, a size 36 belt gives you an effective range of approximately one yard beyond your outstretched arm. Wrapped once, the range will be reduced to about 30", depending upon factors such as hand width and tightness of wrap. Wrapped twice, range will be reduced to about 24", which is optimal for most defensive applications, giving you a good balance between range and control. Wrapped five or six times, you will have a leather boxing glove with a short blackjack attached.

Wrapping the belt around your hand will both prevent droppage and protect the knuckles against cuts or impact; however, such wrapping effectively attaches the belt to your hand, and you could be yanked off balance if the belt is grabbed by your opponent — even if you release your grasp. I recommend wrapping your hand only twice, before swinging the belt so viciously that few adversaries would have the courage to attempt to snatch it.

Gabriel Suarez
01-09-2004, 02:15 PM
Part 2

BASIC MOVEMENTS:

The Japanese have an entire fighting style devoted solely to using the belt as a weapon, known as obijutsu, and the belt is one of the traditional weapons of the eclectic Korean style known as hapkido. It takes at least five years for a skilled martial artist to achieve true mastery. I could devote an entire volume to all the various aspects of beltfighting, but that would go way beyond the scope of this project. Marines, bikers, cowboys, and other violent individuals familiar with streetfighting seldom rely on fancy tricks that take years of practice to perform properly — they favor simple techniques that show immediate results with a minimum of preparation. Since self-defense techniques have much more in common with streetfighting than classical martial arts, we shall focus primarily upon the quick and nasty moves. If you have never used a flexible weapon before and are nervous about injuring yourself with the buckle, you can either remove the buckle or use a length of rope until you become more comfortable (wussy). The belt is far safer to use than the nunchaku, manrikikusari, or kusari-fundo.

1. THE FIGURE-8: This is the first movement you should learn. After wrapping your hand once or twice, slowly swing the buckle in a wide horizontal figure eight in front of your body. After you feel comfortable doing this, you can swing the buckle in the same pattern on either side of your body as well. Next, you can practice tightening and loosening the pattern. After that, you can practice vertical figure-8s and alternate between swinging the belt far from and close to your body. Finally, you can increase your speed. The figure-8 is the most efficient pattern for introductory beltfighting, being easily learned and intimidating to face. It forms a whirling shield of pain from which dozens of attacks can be initiated without warning.

Some self-defense "experts" advocate whipping one’s belt in a circular motion over one’s head to deter assailants, but that is silly as well as ineffective.

2. FLAGELLATION: When practicing or fighting with flexible weapons, you will occasionally hit yourself — this is an eventuality, and is to be expected. In practice, you will learn to redirect a missed swing or rebounding buckle so that it misses you, wraps harmlessly around your arm, or strikes a low-injury area at reduced speed.

You should practice swinging your belt back and forth horizontally, allowing it to wrap around your body and strike your back. By wrapping and unwrapping your hand, you can see how the buckle will impact you at various ranges, so you have a better idea of what to expect. Remember, the buckle’s velocity will be considerably reduced after passing the apex of its swing. With practice, you can learn to redirect missed swings, sidestep them, or allow the belt to wrap harmlessly around your forearm without striking you. In the event that you cannot avoid being struck, chances are the impact will not result in injury if you’ve been training properly.



3. RANGE ADJUSTMENT: While practicing attacks from the figure-8 pattern versus your imaginary opponent, you should also practice extending and shortening your range by wrapping and unwrapping your hand "on the fly." This is done one-handed, and results in a nearly instant adjustment. Maximum range is used for snagging wrists and ankles, snapping into the face, or keeping a knife wielder at a safe distance. A single wrap gives you a better grip, and is good for keeping multiple opponents at bay. A double wrap gives you the best grip, and is good for serious fighting at close range. Additional wraps make your grip increasingly uncomfortable as well as drastically reducing your range, but this might be necessary for certain applications, such as grappling or sapping.



4. THE SLAP: This technique has a low potential for inflicting serious injury, and is ideal for times when only moderate use of force is required. The buckle end is grasped in the hand, and either the extended or doubled leather strap is used to strike with. This will leave welts when swung with force, but will neither break bones nor maim. A concho belt used in this manner can draw blood. Anywhere on the body can be struck with an extended or doubled strap, but strikes to the face and exposed flesh yield the best results. The belt is not wrapped around the hand for this technique — range is reduced by folding the belt in half (doubling) and striking with the extended midsection.



5. THE HORIZONTAL SWING: This is the most common attack, as it is simple and effective. The buckle is swung at the target along a straight horizontal plane, from either the outside or the inside, as hard as possible. The buckle will streak towards the target, impacting it with great force. The target can be struck repeatedly, in a rapid back and forth motion, incredibly fast — it is actually possible to strike an assailant four times in one second using this technique. The horizontal power-swing to the head is the most devastating move in beltfighting — a light belt can maim, and a heavy belt can kill.



Horizontal swings can be directed along declining planes, like targeting the rungs of a ladder. The uppermost rung would encompass the head of a standing opponent, the next lowest rung would be the shoulder and upper arm region, the rung beneath would be the elbows and extended hands, the rung beneath that would be the groin and lowered hands, and the bottommost rung would be the knee and shinbone region.



The buckle of a light belt will leave contusions and small lacerations, and the buckle of a heavy belt will do the same thing, only more severely — often cracking bone and ripping large gouges out of exposed flesh. If you miss with the buckle, the strap will impact your target and the buckle will wrap around, striking at reduced speed. It is imperative that you repeatedly practice striking targets at various distances until you gain familiarity with your weapon, otherwise, it will be far less effective in your hands. Pumpkins. melons, water jugs, and styrofoam heads all make excellent targets. It is possible (though unlikely) that the buckle may rebound at you, so be prepared to dodge if necessary.



6. THE SNAP: To do this, the belt can be held at your side or in front of you with the buckle hanging downwards. The belt can be fully extended, doubled, tripled, or (with thin belts) even concealed in the hand. Suddenly, with a flick of the wrist or quick movement of the lower arm, the buckle shoots directly towards your opponent in a straight line. As it impacts, it is immediately snapped back and readied once again.



This technique is primarily used to surprise and disorient an opponent. It has little risk of serious injury due to its low power, but is difficult to defend against. The primary targets are the face, hands, and groin. The snap takes time to perfect, but it is worth the effort — a master can repeatedly strike targets the size of a quarter, allowing him to pluck out an eye at will.



7. THE OVERHAND SWING: This can be a powerful attack, but it is easy to injure yourself if you miss. The belt comes up from behind you, over your head, and comes crashing down on your opponent at a high rate of speed. The primary target is the top of the head, though the face and hands can also be struck. If you overextend, the buckle will hit the back of his head at reduced speed. If you miss, you will need to sidestep to avoid inadvertently striking your knee or shin. If you crack your own shinbone, you will find yourself at a grave disadvantage. After sidestepping, you can redirect the belt to strike again. This move is dangerous, and requires hours of practice to perform safely.



8. THE UNDERHAND SWING: This is a good move because it is usually unexpected. The belt comes up from the floor behind you, swinging with increasing speed upwards into the target area. Targets include the groin, the hands, and the underside of the jaw. This is a difficult swing to master, primarily due to difficulties in targeting. The underhand swing is as dangerous as the overhand swing if you miss, due to the fact that you can inadvertently strike yourself in the head. This swing takes hours of practice to perform safely.



9. DIAGONAL SWINGS: These are usually implemented without warning from the figure-8 pattern, which is suddenly greatly expanded as the attack is initiated. After you have mastered all the previous techniques, you can feel free to use diagonal attacks in combinations with horizontal and vertical ones. This gives you a great deal of versatility.



10. FANCY STUFF: In addition to smacking and slapping, the belt can also be used to trap, bind, block, throw, snag, and choke. These moves take years of practice to master, and are beyond the scope of this project. One technique that I will share is the simple block. To perform a block, the belt is grasped with both hands at shoulder length apart. There should be slack in the belt, allowing it to bang loosely between where it is grasped. To block a stick attack, the belt is suddenly raised into the proper position (either horizontal or vertical) and pulled taut. It will block almost as well as a rigid staff. With practice, the stick (or arm) can actually be trapped by wrapping the blocking belt around it and pulling in a spinning motion that will throw most assailants off balance. If you have mastered all the prior techniques and wish to learn more, consider obtaining some good books on ninjutsu (of which there are few — you’ll need to be very selective). Be wary of unknown "ninjutsu masters" offering instruction, as becoming a ninja is a popular delusion among the freakishly deranged. If you feel you must attend classes, make sure your instructor is reputable.

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Kinda interesting application for that Wilderness instructor belt :D :D :D

B0486
01-09-2004, 03:47 PM
Good subject Gabe.

I practice with a neck whip [ flexible weapon ] made of 8 kangaroo hide plaits over a rawhide core. It's 50 inches in length and a quarter inch thick with two "poppers" at the striking end.

It's carried regularly doubled and tucked into the waist so the two ends just stick out to be grabbed and accessed to use immediately from concealed.

It's like a small hand bullwhip, custom made by Scott Homschek of Pa. I met Scott this year at the Riddle of Steel with James Keating on the Snake River. We practiced one day for a few hours with nylon rope trainers hitting small square pieces of styrofoam that were thrown in front of you by a partner, then swapped off.

Since I have had mine, I have practiced enough to be able to pull it out and from the poppers on the ground it can deliver a strike to anothers head area to the front from 2-6 feet. Redirects are immediate from there to the sides or one can from the same start strike either side of them.

Overhands are tougher to get good at. I like the idea it comes from below eye level and snaps up into the target area. Most will not see it coming. It takes nary a movement to get it to pop so there isn't much to give away what you are going to do before it happens.

It's main goal is to distract, deter, not so much to stop anyone.
Practice with it for disarms, it can also be coiled to make a good size loop to trap incoming limbs or deflect/parry limbs as you have written above, throw it around the aggressors head and yank him around and to the ground.

You can snap this like a towel in the boys locker room [ everyone remember those days in HS? ]. Multiple snaps are quick, one after the other, reloading on the fly for another while you move off center.

It's very intuitive, lightweight, easily concealed and accessed and can be brought onto planes. Some wear them as belts in smaller lengths, othrs will coil it around their neck. It has an "eye" at one end that accepts the "poppers" so it can be secured and not fall off but easily accesed with a quick tug either from below under a sweatshirt or out the top of the neck.

Flexibles are "in" for me if I have to fly. Figured I'd get up to speed with it if and when I take a plane ride anywhere in the future.

It looks like something a kid would make in arts and crafts. Thats exactly what I'll tell the TSA if they were to search and find it. It won't set metal detectors off and with just a few hours of pratice and some prior experience in snapping towels can be effective in that venue or more likely, to trap/parry as you have menitoned with the belt example above.

You can parry and then garrotte the person to effect compliance, or if you were able to get it around the opponents neck, possible throw them or at least take them off balance. It's not something a thug or mugger would have seen before and may by some time if accessed as he will be wonderign what that is you have in the hand.

Used like a belts options above in your scenarios, it works.

Course, it doesn't have a buckle to damage someone like the belts.

For an idea of what they look like, go here------------

http://www.realfighting.com/issue6/productsframe.html

Gabe, you are listed on their main page with other instructors so I'm sure you are aware of this sites offerings.

The standard "neck whip" is shorter than my custom. If you take a look see at the whips, mine is a heavy double custom in it's length. The heavy doubles were offered as standard items after I had him make mine and Scott feels the heavy double is better at it's intended purpose at this time.

I was never into flexibles until I ran into Scott this year. I like em now though.;)

Brownie

DaveJames
01-09-2004, 04:22 PM
Weren't only the Jarheads that did that, back in the early 60's it was just about standard for us to do so, same thing.Sharpen the lip on the buckle, and tuck just a little extra of the belt inside, so you could get one wrap around your hand, have seen some realy nasty cuts inflicted with them.

brownie,have you ever seen the whip fights that used to take place in Aussie land, saw 2 guys square off once, it wasn't pretty, as I remember the whips were made of kangaroo hide

B0486
01-09-2004, 04:28 PM
Hi Dave,

I have seen video of the fights with the whips. They were wearing fencing masks and heavy suits and took to whipping each other hard. From the small clips I saw of it, they were hitting very hard shots to the others bodies. Great sounds roll off them on the vids I saw.

I believe they hold similair events in Texas at some get together as well [ from memory of visiting whip sites as well ]. Not something you want to get tagged with, I know that much.

I think the best whips are made of kangaroo plaites [ from the whip sites I have visited on the net ] but I'm not that up to speed on bullwhips as others may be.

I have a good friend met through LR, Ark training with JAK who lives in that area who has purchased 1000.00 custom bullwhips and he can make them move continuously, striking anything he pleases. Lots of practice to get to that point of course. They sound like gunfire going off. First time I heard the whips crack, it was "duck and cover". Everyone had a great laugh with that one.

Brownie

Sharp Phil
01-09-2004, 06:01 PM
I reviewed James Keating's "Combat Bandanna (http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/pecom.htm)" tapes, techniques for which would work with any flexible length of belt, rope, chain, etc.

B0486
01-09-2004, 06:10 PM
Phil,

That tape is certainly relevant here and a good place to start with any flexible weapons ideas.

Thanks for the reminder.

Brownie

Gabriel Suarez
01-09-2004, 07:05 PM
This is cool stuff. I'm going to see about getting one of the neck whips and play with it a while.

I remember wayyy back when in the days of my mis-spent youth I once disarmed a nunchaku wielding BG with my belt. I think it was more a matter of luck than intended outcomes, but it sure saved me a beating....and it didn't hurt the rep either. ;)

Sharp Phil
01-09-2004, 07:13 PM
When I was in high school there was this mentally deranged dolt -- I suppose he was mildly retarded, legitimately -- who was quite large and used to bully his way around the neighborhood. I fought him more than once (these were minor fights that ended in him crying and going home; like any bully he did not like to meet resistance).

Jeremy (it's funny how you remember their names after so many years) went through a period in which he would take off his belt and use it to whip people with the buckle. He tried that on me once and I just caught the belt. We played tug-of-war until he finally snatched it back and ran away.

michael
01-09-2004, 07:57 PM
Gabe,
It's funny, the article says to "beware of ninjutsu masters", but that is where I leaned how to use a belt. We used to practice with them in class, and also with the kusari-fundo and the kyoketsu shoge, which use similiar movements. The techniques we used were the same as the one's in the article. It's all good stuff, and a great weapon. It can also be used to strike with, by having the belt in both hands, coming either from straight on or from below, stiking the eye area, nose area or neck. As you do the strike, use forward bodyweight momentum and at the moment of impact with the target, pull the belt taught as when doing the block. After impact is made, continue the forward momentum taking the head back and, in the same movement, down to the ground. Very devestating. This technique works particularly well by striking under the nose and then using the nose as a "hook" when you shove the head back and then down.

John Kuhlman
01-09-2004, 08:38 PM
Fascinating article. I've been thinking about the neck whips since Brownie mentioned them a while back. However, it's just one more piece of gear to carry...although one worth playing with if nothing else.

I have the Wilderness instructor's belt that would be a bear to get off in a hurry. It's too thick so there is too much friction on the belt loops. I have one of their smaller 1-1/4" belts that would just fly off, but the buckle is two aluminum O-rings. Not much than a sting there.

We need a thinner nylon belt with the heft of the full-width instructor's metal buckle.

John

B0486
01-10-2004, 06:23 AM
Hi John,

I'm always looking for unconventional articles that can be used to defend with when one has been disarmed by the TSA or by museums in the DC area, federal facilities, etc.

The neck whip is just an addition to what can be made available for use. I agree, when I have a gun, two folders and a neck knife, the whip would not be added to whats carried daily.

I dislike not having at least something on me that I can utilize in an emergency.

Brownie

Shotgun
01-30-2004, 09:13 AM
My father was in the Marines during WW2 and I remember as a kid how he recommended the belt as a weapon... with a smile.

tenchijin2
01-30-2004, 09:22 AM
Phil, nice to see you here:)

I developed a short series of techniques using a leather belt adapted from basic Bujinkan techniques that I teach to my students. Nothing fancy, but it takes some practice to do anything other than 'whipping'. Because, if your opponent doesn't care about being whipped, he'll just come in and hit you with his fist, which is worse than being hit with a belt, IMO.

So you have to have some versatility. IMO also, the point of the weapon is to give you 'greater reach' to hit him before he can reach you. But you should learn how to grapple with the belt if you plan to use it, otherwise you end up like the bully above: your whip gets caught and all you can do is tug-o-war.

Aric Keith
Clearly... no expert

grnzbra
12-01-2004, 02:06 PM
Does anyone know how to order things from Keating? The website gives a phone number, but every time I called, I got no answer. Not even a machine. With that kind of operation, I don't think I want to juat mail a check to him.

Dan-O
12-01-2004, 02:25 PM
Folks,
People like Gabe and James Keating are in high demand!
Think for a bit how much time and energy it takes to develop and maintain that level of skill(S)and then ponder the difficult task of TRAINING others to perform said skill(S)
It takes alot of time,and energy,be thankfull they do it,it isnt just for the money! :)

Dan-O
12-01-2004, 02:28 PM
I think a quickly learned "Beltfighting" course would be cool,afterall,who doesnt have a belt handy?
Where in the world(Besides Mandress Country ;) ) dont people wear belts.
Awesome Idea!

argyll
12-02-2004, 11:01 PM
The demo on this site is kind of laughable, but I've heard that they make a solid product:

http://www.expeditiondepot.com/index.html

Best regards,

Argyll

B0486
12-03-2004, 05:11 AM
Hi Jake,

Are you still practicing with the flexibles after ROS03?

I take the neckwhip out once in awhile and purchased a custom pocket bullwhip thats getting attention lately as well.

Good to see you here.

Have a good holiday season.

Robin Brown

Tactical Grappler
12-03-2004, 07:22 AM
Ray Floro teaches flexibile weapon, both as an impact and grappling tool and as a knife defense assist.

Here is a vid showing some knife defense:

http://www.stick-and-knife.com/flex1.wmv

I've sparred it, and found you really need the forward drive once you've trapped the knife hand.

He has a few other tricks up his sleeve on improvised applications with handkerchiefs, belts, etc.

Coops
12-03-2004, 03:21 PM
The only belt technique I would be confident with is the 'Sash' as used by John Urwin in his autobigraphy, 'The Sixteen.'

Now THAT'S a weapon.

JOE MACK
12-07-2004, 10:24 PM
The technique for the manrikigusari and perhaps the meteor hammer or steel whip could be used with a belt, too. Could the shoulder belt that clips onto a bag be utilized? I don't fly often so I wonder if these bags make it through carry-on or do they have to be checked? How about making your own strap and instead of clips substitute a couple of 'biners? :confused:

Cold War Scout
12-08-2004, 10:33 AM
Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts Greg.

DaveJames
12-08-2004, 09:28 PM
Greg,thanks,, but I'd bet you have never been had at by a jar-head or a grunt with their garrison and the sharpen buckle,, I have seen it done first hand ,and there was more then enough power, and damage to boot

The Tengu
12-08-2004, 10:40 PM
Greg,thanks,, but I'd bet you have never been had at by a jar-head or a grunt with their garrison and the sharpen buckle,, I have seen it done first hand ,and there was more then enough power, and damage to bootYou are probably right.

I have deleted my post due to my lack of practical beltfighting combat experience.

Cold War Scout
12-11-2004, 12:49 PM
Greg:

Perhaps you should watch the Dog Brothers tapes of real fighting with a stick against bullwhips. Both an 11 foot one and a 6 foot one. Neither match went more than about one minute before the stick fighter prevailed.

The Tengu
12-11-2004, 01:46 PM
Thanks for the tip.

That was kind of my point.

I've been practicing Japanese martial arts weapons for years, and I don't feel that flexibles are as practical as sticks or knives whether it be a kusuri gama, a kusari fundo or a kyoketsu shoge.

However, as I have never been a jar-head in a bar fight I suppose it matters not.:)

Tom Sotis
12-31-2004, 04:52 AM
Hi Guys,
Here's a few things about amok flexibles...pt1

Grips:
Finger squeeze
Finger squeeze with thumb
Pinching
Thumb-in-loop
Thumb-in-loop with fingers
Fingers-in-loop
Single hand wrap Forward
Single hand wrap Reverse
Two-finger wrap Forward (& w/thumb)
Two-finger wrap Reverse (& w/thumb)
Forward Finger Weave
Reverse Finger Weave

Holds:
Single Reverse (long)
Double Reverse (med)
Single Reverse Folded
Double Reverse Folded (short)
Single Reverse / Single Forward
Single Forward (long)
Double Forward (med)
Single Forward Folded
Double Forward Folded (short)
Single Forward / Single Reverse
Single Circle
Double Circle

Actions:
Wraps
Snaps
Clotheslines
Wrap & grabs
Roping
Whipping
Levers for fist-choking

Wraps:
CW
CCW
W & w/o strikes
Right pull
Left pull
Both pull

Catches:
Straight punches:
Outside & Inside wraps
Hooks
Kicks

Knots:
Chocking knots
Whipping knots
Tying a circle

Types:
Belt
Rope
Hankerchief
Tee shirt
Necktie
Shoelaces
Electric cords
Wire
Other environmental items

Characteristics:
Loose – stiff
Weak – Strong
Light - heavy

Tom Sotis

Tom Sotis
12-31-2004, 04:56 AM
amok flexibles - pt2

Categories of technique:
Choking the neck
Binding the arms
Binding the legs
Arm & Neck combo
Arm & Leg combo
Neck & Leg combo

Familiarization:
Use different grips and holds and do the basic themes switching, HC, & Leg attacks.

Goals:
Choking
Crush windpipe
Smash head to ground
Restrain
Distraction

Entries:
FF – CW & CCW headwrap
FR – CW & CCW headwrap
RF – same as FF
RR – same as FR

Striking, switching, & set-ups:
Use leg and body shots to bend forward. Use hands and forearms to bend his head back for wrapping

Wrap & grabs:
FF, whip/strike, thumb eye & grab, snap head to ground
FR with backhand to face and cord whips around neck, reach under neck & grab, snap to ground

Catching punches:
Straight:
Inside parry / outside wrap / inside pull
Outside parry / inside wrap / outside pulls

Hooks:
Same side block & wrap
Snap windpipe
Lead hand head rolls & wraps CW & CCW
Block w low strike – rear hand head rolls

Vs. 1-2: Parry & wrap combo’s
Ins/Out lead, Out/Ins rear
Hand off to the left
Hand off to the right

Quartering

Tom Sotis

Tom Sotis
12-31-2004, 04:59 AM
amok flexibles - pt3

Familiarization

In order to be comfortable with the weapon, familiarization is acquired first by normalizing it. Ideally you will start with the rope in double reverse weave. Holding your hands in your usual fighting position, execute your usual empty hands techniques. It is important that your rope fighting skills compliment your empty hands techniques not replace them. Just go through your normal practices with it in your grasp. By doing this you are not limited to the finite and narrow uses of the weapon. This is the first step.

The second step is to become proficient in the progression of categories to integrate rope specializations into natural fighting technique. At this stage the practitioner is supposed to be overly focused on using every bit of the rope as he can thus learning to exhaust its full spectrum of options and ready them for use.

The third step occurs when you find yourself focusing less on the rope in your expression, but your use is more effective when you do. Therein lies clean sophisticated technique.




Categories of technique

Encircling the neck
Striking entries, encircling the neck, takedown or throw, & finish.


Binding the arms
Snaring catches one arm, takedown or throw, & finish.
Tying binds together both arms, takedown or throw, & finish.


Arm & Neck combo
Binding one or both arms to his neck.


Binding the legs
Snaring catches one leg, takedown or throw, & finish.
Tying binds together both legs, takedown or throw, & finish.


Arm & Leg combo
Binding one or two arms then takedown or throw, then tie it to a leg.
Catching a kick and snaring a punch, then takedown or throw & finish.


Neck & Leg combo
Tying the neck to the leg


Tom Sotis
www.knifefighting.com

Tom Sotis
12-31-2004, 05:06 AM
AMOK!,
This is not all of amok's flexible work but I posted it to give you an idea of how amok breaks it down for seminars. Of course, HOW you practice is perhaps even more important than what, so applying this material to amok's methodology of "Guided Discovery" and combative formatting is very important.
Sincerely yours in putting the enemy down,
HNY,
Tom Sotis

Anthony
12-31-2004, 05:37 AM
The belt is among the finest of all improvised weapons.
It is often pulled in situations where a weapon is required, but drawing a knife or gun might be considered too extreme —
I have no problem with the belt being a fine improvised weapon. But:
How many of us, if doing the above, would have our pistols/revolvers, spare ammo, ASP & whatever else, fall in a heap around our ankles :D
And how many people, even without the assorted weapons on their belts, would have their PANTS fall around the ankles. :eek:
Like all weapons, some sound thought and practise is required beforehand.
Regards,
Anthony.

Anthony
12-31-2004, 05:50 AM
Where in the world(Besides Mandress Country ;) ) dont people wear belts.
Awesome Idea!
Believe it or not LRS, but the Scotsmen if in traditional dress, ( Kilts ) are better armed than the other Brits !
I've been told by a serious Scot,( although Coops - a UK policeman - may correct me if I'm wrong,) that they are not prohibited from carrying the daggers that form a part of the outfit.
On trips to the UK, perhaps one can always find alittle Scotish inheritance, to justify the outfit. :D
Just remember what should be worn under the Kilt though. :eek: - Hint, It gets alittle nippy in the winter ! ;)
Regards,
Anthony.

Sharp Phil
12-31-2004, 07:35 AM
I have a kefiyah that I wear as a scarf that makes an excellent improvised flexible weapon.

http://www.themartialist.com/images/scarf01.jpg

http://www.themartialist.com/images/scarf02.jpg

It is fine for use with, say, James Keating's Fighting Bandanna (http://www.themartialist.com/0703/bandanna.htm) material and a pretty handy emergency item, given that it's a very big piece of cloth that can be used as a head wrap, fabric tie, or whatever.

michael
12-31-2004, 08:54 AM
The belt would be utilized mainly when not carry conventional weapons, at least IMHO. An example would be when traveling on an airplane and you are limited by TSA to certain "allowable" carry-on items. It is very kind of them to allow belts, small flashlights, steel ink pens and other implements.

As far as the scarf goes, it can certainly be used as a weapon, but I would not want to wear it around my neck.:eek:

Dan-O
01-01-2005, 02:54 AM
Phil,
The Head Scarf you are wearing in that picture as well as your swarthy complexion and facial hair,would make me,and perhaps others take a long look at you in a crowded room.

Profiling has been discussed on this forum before so it is no surprise that I attempt to practice it whenever possible.

Just MHO,but if you want to wear a scarf of that type,loose the traditional pattern and colors of the Arabs,and find something similar that doesnt make you look anything like a Haji.

If this makes me sound predjudiced towards certain persons,it is because I am. :)

Sharp Phil
01-01-2005, 11:27 AM
Choosing the scarf in that pattern is deliberate -- I guess I'm making a point, of types. ;)

Dan-O
01-01-2005, 11:35 AM
Phil,
Im not slagging you Bro,honestly. :)
What is the point? Is there some tactical value to your scarf pattern I have missed?
The reason I mentioned it was because here(Not necessarily everywhere)a kayefa type scarf immediately marks you as a non westerner/Arab or in some cases,not necessarily yours,a complete S.F. wannabe poseur.
The Head Scarf is actually a very usefull piece of gear,could be a scarf,keeps sun off the head,tourniquet,towel,improvised weapon.
Why you choose that particular color and pattern Im curious about. :confused:

Sharp Phil
01-01-2005, 11:39 AM
Think of it as "robbing a symbol of its power," in my own small way. It's sort of a thumb in the eye to the folks who hate us.

Dan-O
01-01-2005, 11:53 AM
I think I get it,
Using it while not being affiliated with the ideology/organization is somehow removing a piece of fabric of it's percieved affiliation with islamic Sh**bags?

Maybe you are on to something.

Maybe people who are less understanding of such fashion statements are going to think you are a Haji and hassle the S**t out of you.
Either way,you are a big boy and obviously know what you are doing.
I would like to hear some of the reactions,if any,you get to wearing this unique piece of clothing for a bit.Especially if you travel to some of the more conservative parts of the US.

Good Luck! :)

Sharp Phil
01-01-2005, 06:04 PM
Precisely.

Since I started wearing it I've waited to see if I did get any sort of reaction. Oddly, while I live and work in pretty public circles, nothing's happened. Only one person recognized it for what it was by name, and he was simply curious as to where I got it. A second fellow remarked that it had "a very Arab look," and all he wanted was to know where he could buy one. I admit I was surprised that this was all the reaction it garnered.

Gabriel Suarez
01-01-2005, 06:22 PM
Tom,

Great stuff. Perhaps a flex weapon segment would be in order at the Reno Camp?

Cold War Scout
01-02-2005, 06:10 AM
That would be very worthwhile!

Tom Sotis
01-02-2005, 07:17 AM
Gabe,
I'll be more than happy to do a segment of flexibles in Reno. You know the way I operate - you can order anything on the menu.
Yours in combat,
Tom

DaveJames
01-02-2005, 09:54 PM
Hmm! That scarf just screams out for some split-shot sewn into the bottom edges :D

stickjock
02-06-2005, 11:14 AM
So, Gabe, when is the next event? Are you going to do a little belt work? This is a subject near and dear to my black heart. :)

michael
02-09-2005, 08:15 AM
WRESTLERS AND GRAPPLERS have a distinct advantage PERIOD.............all fights end up on the ground.....thats exactly were I take the fight wHEN its just me and Him....proper holds and QUICK control.Ultimately rendering the FOOL unconscious ..............end of story...........besides, WRESTLING IS A BIBLICAL SPORT......GOD LOVES THE MOVES...........out..TC all..............
You've got a lot to learn.;)

Eric
02-10-2005, 02:45 PM
In teh early '70s, I lived in San Fransisco and attended Grammar School. THe school I went to was in a rough neighborhood, with many gangs. Chief among them was the Junior Tongs (Chinese) and a African American gang whose name I can't remember. Anyway, all the gangbangers used to wear these elaborately decorated Western style belts.

They used these belts as their primary weapon in street fights. They'd sharpen the buckle hook (the hook that secures the belt buckle into a hole on the belt itself) down to a needle point and use this to gouge their opponents during a fight. I must say they were extremely effective. I've seen many kids in the area with scars on their faces & several with glass eyes.

The Tongs would use their belts as a modified whip chain. Many would use modified Nunchaku technique. The other gangs would mostly use crude techniques in horizontal or diagional orientation. In all cases, the preferred striking surface was the head. And the most important element was speed. When attacking, they would just move towards their target, attacking their target from various directions. Many times the objective was to hit the temple area, which would have been fatal, with or without the sharpened buckle hook.

A formidable weapon indeed; one I had almost forgotten about!

Sid
02-10-2005, 11:52 PM
A couple of weeks ago, a street gang attacked and robbed a couple, early on a Saturay evening in the street one block from where I live - the gang members where teenagers and it was reported that they took off their belts and hit the couple with the buckles...

I don't now about junior tongs - they were junior something or other - but either they have heard about belt fighting some place or it has occured to them as a natural weapon. I don't think these were the kind of people who had researched the subject on the web, but you never know.

Is there an evolution in fighting methods, or do they spring up independently of each other, the same methods appearing for the same situations?

Geezer
02-11-2005, 07:56 AM
In the late 40s and early 50s naughty boys often took their belts, wrapped the tongue end around their hand once or twice, leaving the buckle end dangling. Pretty effective, since you could just punch away like you would do unarmed, the flying belt buckle just added to the general mayhem. It was considered an effective defense against the switchblade. Bicycle chain belts were not uncommon as well.

Also at that time there was a shoe company called Flagg Brothers, which made various styles of shoe that were very popular. The soles were quite thick, and it was possbile to insert a razor blade in the toe so that the cutting edge would protrude.

All of the above notwithstanding, it is important to remember that there were rules for fighting in those days. Weapons were not OK unless sanctioned beforehand. "Champion" fights wre not uncommon. That is, each side might select its best fighter who would then fight the other side's guy in single combat. This was considered to have settled the matter, at least until the next provocation.

God bless and y'all be mindful out there.

eight_88888888
06-27-2005, 01:46 PM
Gabe,
It's funny, the article says to "beware of ninjutsu masters", but that is where I leaned how to use a belt.

where did you find one? can you recommend any books on this?

about 2 weeks ago, by popular demand, i gave a little exhibition of beltfighting on a West Point ferry cruising down the Hudson. the last picture is of using the belt to trap a punch, but it didn't turn out too well.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/eight_88888888/album?.dir=/a2b1

positive rate
06-27-2005, 04:53 PM
I'm pretty sure this quote was from a book, "Hardcore Self Defense" by C.R. Jahn. Almost word for word.
The book is an interesting read. There are sections on "beltfighting", guns, knives, improvised weapons, and "mindset".
Some good stuff, some stuff to leave.
Pretty cheap on Amazon.

J Marwood
06-27-2005, 05:56 PM
A friend of mine once used a belt to good effectwhen attacked by a group of thugs. He was ametal fan and wore a bullet belt. One swing actually took the tip of a guys finger!

argyll
06-29-2005, 09:41 PM
I believe they are called Gutra and Agal, as i never heard "Keyifah" in the gulf region... where is it called "Keyifah"?

A keffiyeh is apparently another name for a shemagh that is used by Palestinians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuffiyeh

Best regards,

Argyll

eight_88888888
07-11-2005, 06:48 PM
I'm pretty sure this quote was from a book, "Hardcore Self Defense" by C.R. Jahn. Almost word for word.
The book is an interesting read. There are sections on "beltfighting", guns, knives, improvised weapons, and "mindset".
Some good stuff, some stuff to leave.
Pretty cheap on Amazon.


yes, it is an excerpt from that book. would you recommend the book? it's a long story on how i found that part, there is an excerpt online.

the following is a link to the "beltfighting" section of his book:
http://righteouswarriortemple.org/New%20Folder/hrdce.htm

the author's organization provided some other excerpts, including a helpful section debunking some self-defense myths. the excerpts:
http://righteouswarriortemple.org/New%20Folder/hce.htm

positive rate
07-11-2005, 08:04 PM
yes, it is an excerpt from that book. would you recommend the book? it's a long story on how i found that part, there is an excerpt online.

the following is a link to the "beltfighting" section of his book:
http://righteouswarriortemple.org/New%20Folder/hrdce.htm

the author's organization provided some other excerpts, including a helpful section debunking some self-defense myths. the excerpts:
http://righteouswarriortemple.org/New%20Folder/hce.htm
Because of their greater experience level, I don't think most WT'ers would learn much from this book. Being less experienced, I considered it worth the 10 bucks or so, even if I found things I disagreed with. Sometimes I can learn through positive and negative example.
The most beneficial aspect of this book is the emphasis on mindset and it's development.
Not to patronize Gabe, but "Combat Perspectives" is probably more useful to that end.

eight_88888888
07-12-2005, 03:43 PM
Not to patronize Gabe, but "Combat Perspectives" is probably more useful to that end.

okey dokey, i saw the "Combative persepctives" book in a recommendation in Black Belt magazine, i was thinking of getting it. But then again, I think I kinda have the "mindset" part down pretty well.

Basically, that while the amateur likes to brag and show off his skills, the master is humble and quiet about them (like Atticus Finch and his marksmanship in "To Kill A Mockingbird.")

The other thing is that violence is ugly, it's not a game, it's not a show, and there is greater honor in sheathing the sword than drawing it.

I was once accosted in a high school bathroom by a Crips member and a few of his friends for accidentally wearing a red bandanna (it's a long story). The instigator was about my size and weight and I probably could have fought my way out, but instead I acted very apologetically (yet without showing vulnerability), removed the bandanna, and quickly walked through them and out the door.

No glory in spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair.


Does that sound about right or is there something wrong with my mindset? What can I do to improve it?

MTS
07-12-2005, 04:38 PM
I was once accosted in a high school bathroom by a Crips member and a few of his friends for accidentally wearing a red bandanna (it's a long story). The instigator was about my size and weight and I probably could have fought my way out, but instead I acted very apologetically (yet without showing vulnerability), removed the bandanna, and quickly walked through them and out the door.

No glory in spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair.


Does that sound about right or is there something wrong with my mindset? What can I do to improve it?

Well I'll give you +1 for being able to talk your way out of there in one piece but a -1 for bad tactics to start with. You should have known not to fly any kind of gang colors in your own HS.

MY $0.02.

eight_88888888
07-12-2005, 10:43 PM
You should have known not to fly any kind of gang colors in your own HS.

thank you Mr. Swain. We had a cowboy-themed rally that day, and they were passing out bandannas and plastic sheriff stars. My HS was listed in America's top 100 high schools before (i think in newsweek), so I thought it was a pretty safe place. I suppose there is the naive aristocratic "upper crust" of our school who run the ASB (which is why they didn't have the foresight not to pass out bandannas. I filed a complaint with the admin :rolleyes: )

When the experience comes up in conversation many people get goggle-eyed. "You mean we have *gangs* :eek: at our school?" Ever since then I've taken to wearing a belt to school. C.R. Jahn, the author of Hardcore Self-Defense, heads a certain organization- that organization claims that in the hands of a trained individual, a belt can easily defeat a knife-wielding attacker. After that experience and another incident involving a punk with a Balisong (strangely enough, in the exact same location as the previous incident), I've grown a new respect and appreciation for my belt.

I'm always in the wrong place in the wrong time. There were plenty of OTHER people wearing red bandannas (and blue ones, as well), but it had to be ME walking into that bathroom at that time. :rolleyes: Fortunately it was myself and not one of those helpless upper-crusters.

P.S. Any relation to Mike Swain, the judoka?

MTS
07-13-2005, 06:37 AM
thank you Mark. We had a cowboy-themed rally that day, and they were passing out bandannas and plastic sheriff stars. My HS was listed in America's top 100 high schools before (i think in newsweek), so I thought it was a pretty safe place. I suppose there is the naive aristocratic "upper crust" of our school who run the ASB (which is why they didn't have the foresight not to pass out bandannas. I filed a complaint with the admin :rolleyes: )

What is "ASB"? If they have the same rally again I hope they can find a neutral color to hand out.

Also, I corrected your misspelling of my name in the above quote.:)


When the experience comes up in conversation many people get goggle-eyed. "You mean we have *gangs* :eek: at our school?" Ever since then I've taken to wearing a belt to school. C.R. Jahn, the author of Hardcore Self-Defense, heads a certain organization- that organization claims that in the hands of a trained individual, a belt can easily defeat a knife-wielding attacker. After that experience and another incident involving a punk with a Balisong (strangely enough, in the exact same location as the previous incident), I've grown a new respect and appreciation for my belt.

The two problems with gangs that I see a lot of is that people are in denial that the problem exists and conversly a lot of the so called "gang bangers" are in fact wannabes, not that they cannot be dangerous.


I'm always in the wrong place in the wrong time. There were plenty of OTHER people wearing red bandannas (and blue ones, as well), but it had to be ME walking into that bathroom at that time. :rolleyes: Fortunately it was myself and not one of those helpless upper-crusters.

Bring your own bandana next time? In school colors?


P.S. Any relation to Mike Swain, the judoka?

Not that I know of.

eight_88888888
07-13-2005, 07:10 PM
What is "ASB"? If they have the same rally again I hope they can find a neutral color to hand out.

The two problems with gangs that I see a lot of is that people are in denial that the problem exists and conversly a lot of the so called "gang bangers" are in fact wannabes, not that they cannot be dangerous.



Bring your own bandana next time? In school colors?



ASB stands for "Associated Student Body," and is pretty much our student government. It's definitely not a cross-section of the school, rather the top crust of highly academic Asians and Indians. The school is very competitive academically- and the people who run it are often naive and unaware of the "dark side."

But then again, it is in a prosperous neighborhood in the Silicon Valley, and as a result a lot of little brats fancy themselves "gangstas;" I usually find them more of an annoyance than a real threat.

However, the incident with the Balisong was started by poser gangsters; one little punk who needed a haircut got a new toy it seemed, His idea of a “badass” way to show it off to his little friends was to click-clack it open, brandish it, and take an overhand stab at one of them. The other kids almost crapped their baggy shorts, which probably would’ve been funny to watch, if I was watching.

Being the coward I was, I just stepped into the nearest toilet stall and locked the door until they left. Getting a nerve cut and spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair is worse than dying, IMO. There were no authorities nearby to report them to.

In your expert opinion, was that the right thing to do? That punk would likely not have had the huevos to actually stab me if I confronted him about bringing such dangerous things to school. And if an accident happened (say he sneezed while making the mock stab,) someone could’ve gotten hurt (even though they probably had it coming to them).

I’m familiar with “defanging the snake,” the Jim Wagner knife disarm rule, improvising weapons, dropping to the ground and kicking (demonstrated by Erneest Emerson), and using a belt or jacket to trap their weapon hand (though I lack practice and have never used those skills in an actual confrontation). Could that be considered being adequately equipped to deal with some punks with sharp objects if the situation ever happened again? Or should I stick with my tactics from this incident? Of course safety is important, but somehow hiding in a toilet stall while others (no matter how low their character or intelligence) are in peril nearby do not seem like the values of a brave Warrior.

MTS
07-13-2005, 07:55 PM
However, the incident with the Balisong was started by poser gangsters; one little punk who needed a haircut got a new toy it seemed, His idea of a “badass” way to show it off to his little friends was to click-clack it open, brandish it, and take an overhand stab at one of them. The other kids almost crapped their baggy shorts, which probably would’ve been funny to watch, if I was watching.

Being the coward I was, I just stepped into the nearest toilet stall and locked the door until they left. Getting a nerve cut and spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair is worse than dying, IMO. There were no authorities nearby to report them to.

In your expert opinion, was that the right thing to do? That punk would likely not have had the huevos to actually stab me if I confronted him about bringing such dangerous things to school. And if an accident happened (say he sneezed while making the mock stab,) someone could’ve gotten hurt (even though they probably had it coming to them).

I’m familiar with “defanging the snake,” the Jim Wagner knife disarm rule, improvising weapons, dropping to the ground and kicking (demonstrated by Erneest Emerson), and using a belt or jacket to trap their weapon hand (though I lack practice and have never used those skills in an actual confrontation). Could that be considered being adequately equipped to deal with some punks with sharp objects if the situation ever happened again? Or should I stick with my tactics from this incident? Of course safety is important, but somehow hiding in a toilet stall while others (no matter how low their character or intelligence) are in peril nearby do not seem like the values of a brave Warrior.

No you showed good judgement.

If you had taken action against the guy with the knife I would say the people you were trying to protect would turn it around and try to make you the aggressor and he was only "defending" himself.

DaveJames
07-14-2005, 08:17 AM
As Mark posted you did well,, first job is to know when to fight and when not to, a live witness some times goes a long way to putting the BG's where they belong

eight_88888888
07-16-2005, 10:50 PM
If you had taken action against the guy with the knife I would say the people you were trying to protect would turn it around and try to make you the aggressor and he was only "defending" himself.

Actually, I never intended to start a fight, only to give him a talk about going “down the wrong path” like he was doing, bringing knives to school, hanging out with the wrong people, etc. Of course if he decided to take a swipe at me and I had to act in self-defense, I suppose his friends very well could all turn on me. But I have good grades quite a few character witnesses among teachers and friends, while the others were characters of ill repute and bad grades. but don’t take any unnecessary risks I guess.


Anyways, back to the topic of this thread :D

What I know about Beltfighting
1. Mr. Suarez's first post on this thread, a beltfighting tutorial from Hardcore Self-Defense by C.R. Jahn, is an excellent way to learn basic beltfighting (it's how I got started :) ). However, I have never used a belt in an actual self-defense situation, so what he teaches is unproven in my life as of yet.
However my studies have led me to believe the credibility of C.R. Jahn and what he says, I think he is a person you can trust.
2. I once watched a video from florofighting.com (I don't remember if it was in this forum or somewhere else), showing how a belt can be used to trap the weapon hand of a knife-wielding attacker, and provides a more secure grip than empty-hand techniques.
3. One of the things C.R. Jahn notes in his book is that "the horizontal power swing to the head is one of the most devastating techniques in beltfighting." Reading from an earlier post on this thread regarding the Junior Tongs and other gangs using belts, it seems like this is true- that the head is a good target.
4. Another thing Jahn advocates is the Figure-8 movement with the belt, as opposed to the numerous others who advocate swinging the belt in a horizontal-plane circle above the head. In my experience, I wholeheartedly agree with Jahn- any lapses in your control while swinging the belt over your head can lead to you accidentally cracking yourself in the skull.
5. I highly prefer the peg buckle over the roller buckle in a belt.
A roller buckle is the kind seen on most belts, where the metal buckle is pretty skeletonized, like a small steel rod bent into a rectangle, with a steel pin in the middle that swivels at one point and pokes into the holes.
____
l l l


A peg buckle is where the buckle "clamps" to a free strap of leather (not anchored to the buckle) by virtue of a set of "teeth" which bite into the leather. The strap goes around the waist and comes back, where it is inserted into a guide-slot on the buckle, and a peg on the buckle fits into the belt-holes.

Disadvantages of a roller buckle:
-It is more difficult to take off quickly, making your belt slower to deploy when a fast draw could mean the difference between life and death. Or perhaps it is because I am clumsy with one, with enough training, I'll allow that one can become proficient with drawing it quickly, as C.R. Jahn advises.
-The design of the buckle itself is much lighter and has less bult with which to cut through the air and into your opponent. Also, the fact that it can "swivel" and "give" on the belt strap might reduce the force of impact.

Advantages of a roller buckle:
Because the buckle is tied to the belt, it is more secure and less likely to fall off than the peg buckle.

Disadvantages of a peg buckle:
-After repeated swinging (as when you are training), the centrifugal force may make the buckle slide, and eventually fall off the belt- the teeth will leave drag marks in the leather. This is especially unfortunate, as when you are training, a hard swing may suddenly make the heavy buckle fly off and break a window, dent a wall, or break a skull or put out an innocent bystander's eye. The above can also happen in a fight, and then you'd be left with a strap of leather- a weapon still usable, but requiring more skill and possessing less range and power. Jahn recommends superglue or something (see his book) to affix it if necessary, but then it makes your belt harder to replace, and the buckel cannot be taken off when you want it to. Why you would want to take off your buckle may depend: you might want to clean it, show it off, change buckles, change leather straps (when one is worn-out), or use it to load a sock with for an improvised sap :D . I once demonstrated this ability of a removable buckle at West Point to some curious onlookers, and they were all amazed, which puzzles me.

Advantages of a peg buckle
-Can be easily and quickly disengaged with one hand (for me at least, IDK what works for the rest of you guys).
-Bigger, heavier, for more stopping power and speed.
-If you are so inclined, the peg can be sharpened for a bit of extra nastiness to gouge eyes, as another guy mentioned earlier on this thread (why you'd want such a vicious device had better be a good one, generally only criminals would want that kind of power). An unsharpened peg buckle is already a formidable weapon, possessing just as much stopping power as a sharpened buckle, but with less chance of causing permanent injury. As a peace-loving Warrior, I wish to minimize the harm done to all parties, if possible (kill only when necessary, maim only when necessary). I advise others to value the same, because then the line between good guys and bad guys is blurred. Hopefully this information does not fall into the hands of the criminally minded.
-You can easily change buckles to fit the occasion, or replace rotting or cracking leathers.
-If the teeth are beginning to "drag," you can either flip the leather over to the other side for fresh leather to "bite" into, or you can simply snip off the affected leather and clamp the buckle back onto fresh leather. Hope you have a long belt, if you are currently using the inner holes, you should be fine, if you are using the other holes, better lose some weight :D (or get a new leather, erring on the side of longer incase you have to snip it)
6. Smooth-backed belts are preferable to ones with rough back, as the reduced friction against your pants makes them quicker to slide out of your belt loops and deploy. I have never bought a rough-backed belt in my life.
7. A company makes belts specially designed for fighting (again, I don't remember if i heard this here or somewhere else). I'll post the link when I find it. They are quite expensive though ($60-80), and tend to stick out like a sore thumb, which is a disadvantage in the many situations where you want to look unassuming and not arouse suspicion.
(the following points will be elaborated on further when I have the time)
8. Concho belts
9. One- and two-handed methods of belt drawing.
10. Wearing the belt inside or outside of the belt loops.
11. Obijutsu and Hojojutsu and Ninjutsu and Hapkido and flexible weapons in general.
12. Buckle and pants (extra belt loops) and leather selection (stitched vs. glued, thickness, etc.) and metal tips.
13. Legal advantages.
14. Moral things "the weapon of wifebeaters"


What I don't know about Beltfighting (and would appreciate enlightenment upon)
1. I'm not that familiar with flexible-weapons fighting. I can use the belt to strike with, but I'm not competent at grappling, trapping, blocking, throwing, choking, etc. with a belt. I've heard things like "double reverse weave" but I have no idea what they're talking about. Can somebody help me out (or recommend a place I can learn, like another thread?)
2. How to verify if the belt I bought at a flea market sale is genuine leather (even though it's imprinted on the belt)
3. "Ninjutsu", like Jahn talks about at the end of this Beltfighting chapter. Book recommendations? Teacher/school/video recommendations?
4. Other stuff. I appreciate any and all knowledge on the subject, as long as it is accurate.



In the meantime, I highly recommend you all (except criminals) study the Beltfighting lesson by C.R. Jahn (first post on this thread). But of course, I'm just an amateur, and this is what I know from my limited experience.

Garcia
07-20-2005, 05:46 AM
Would someone explain in detail how to do the horizontal figure eight drill?

I have read this thread with interest and I have a question regarding the horizantal figure eight. Here is the statement from the original post "wrapping your hand once or twice, slowly swing the buckle in a wide horizontal figure eight in front of your body."

I have experimented with this and gotten hit by the buckle for my trouble.

I would sure appreciate any guidance you all might have.

Garcia

mudvillejon
07-20-2005, 11:01 AM
However, the incident with the Balisong was started by poser gangsters; one little punk who needed a haircut got a new toy it seemed, His idea of a “badass” way to show it off to his little friends was to click-clack it open, brandish it, and take an overhand stab at one of them. The other kids almost crapped their baggy shorts, which probably would’ve been funny to watch, if I was watching.

Being the coward I was, I just stepped into the nearest toilet stall and locked the door until they left. Getting a nerve cut and spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair is worse than dying, IMO. There were no authorities nearby to report them to.

I’m familiar with “defanging the snake,” the Jim Wagner knife disarm rule, improvising weapons, dropping to the ground and kicking (demonstrated by Erneest Emerson), and using a belt or jacket to trap their weapon hand (though I lack practice and have never used those skills in an actual confrontation). Could that be considered being adequately equipped to deal with some punks with sharp objects if the situation ever happened again? Or should I stick with my tactics from this incident? Of course safety is important, but somehow hiding in a toilet stall while others (no matter how low their character or intelligence) are in peril nearby do not seem like the values of a brave Warrior.

I also think you exercised good judgement.

The fight you never had is the fight you never lost.

Be very very respectful of knives. They are extremely dangerous even in the hands of a complete idiot.

I would forget any thoughts about disarming a person with a knife. Its a lethal weapon and an attack with one is an attempt to kill you, not a 'fight', and should be treated as such. Kids your age can be dumb. Its not an insult. We've all been there. Try to be smart yourself. If the gangs are an issue and the admin will not deal with it, inform the police, and have your folks bring it up with the PTA, and see if they can focus the Admin's attention.

J

mudvillejon
07-20-2005, 11:03 AM
and pick another bathroom to pee in. This one seems to be occupied by idiots.

eight_88888888
07-23-2005, 09:42 PM
and pick another bathroom to pee in. This one seems to be occupied by idiots.

lol, i've warned my friends to stay away from it:
"The Bathroom of Doom" (rhymes too)

of course, sometimes i'm too lazy to walk somewhere else, so i just unbuckle my belt and go on heightened alert before going in.

my main complaint with that bathroom however is the stench of cigarette smoke that often forces me to use another one. :mad:

hm- another topic i'd like to see in the "Unarmed Combatives" section is metsubishi: throwing powder in the eyes and stuff.

eight_88888888
07-23-2005, 09:50 PM
Would someone explain in detail how to do the horizontal figure eight drill?

I have read this thread with interest and I have a question regarding the horizantal figure eight. Here is the statement from the original post "wrapping your hand once or twice, slowly swing the buckle in a wide horizontal figure eight in front of your body."

I have experimented with this and gotten hit by the buckle for my trouble.

I would sure appreciate any guidance you all might have.

Garcia

okey-dokey.

if you're familiar with filipino martial arts, there are 2 angles, let's call them angle one and angle two. to define:

say there's a clock face in front of you, like you're looking at a big clock. angle one goes from roughly the one o'clock point on the clock (your upper right) to about the seven o'clock point (lower left). Angle two goes from 11 o’clock to 5 o’clock.

for the figure-8, I start from angle one. the buckle will make some forward-axis movement at first, then go down and back. then I raise it up from there and make an angle-two swing. then I go up from there and back to angle one, and it starts all over.

the fancy stuff, like vertical figure-8s, tightening/loosening the pattern, moving it up, around and to the side come later.

and if you don’t like getting bonked, take the buckle off until you are more comfortable. but note that this makes the training less realistic, because the buckle affects how the belt swings.

I’d post a video of me doing the figure-8, but I don’t know how. is there a place where I can post or host video files?

eight_88888888
02-28-2006, 07:11 PM
Gabe,
It's funny, the article says to "beware of ninjutsu masters", but that is where I leaned how to use a belt. We used to practice with them in class, and also with the kusari-fundo and the kyoketsu shoge, which use similiar movements. The techniques we used were the same as the one's in the article. It's all good stuff, and a great weapon. It can also be used to strike with, by having the belt in both hands, coming either from straight on or from below, stiking the eye area, nose area or neck. As you do the strike, use forward bodyweight momentum and at the moment of impact with the target, pull the belt taught as when doing the block. After impact is made, continue the forward momentum taking the head back and, in the same movement, down to the ground. Very devestating. This technique works particularly well by striking under the nose and then using the nose as a "hook" when you shove the head back and then down.

Michael, who or what organization was it that you trained with?

Also, that technique you described seems a lot like the techniques with a 3-foot rope in Army FM21-150.

michael
03-01-2006, 01:55 AM
Michael, who or what organization was it that you trained with?

Also, that technique you described seems a lot like the techniques with a 3-foot rope in Army FM21-150.

The Bujinkan, under a teacher taught by Hatsumi Sensei. My local teacher in now a 10th Dan and was very good, but a lot of the more modern variations I learned from another 10th Dan that had a school in Columbia, MD. He was a USMC combat veteran and worked for the DIA and now the CIA. He was very good at taking the old methods and adapting them to modern use.

Class Auditor
03-04-2006, 12:32 AM
Good subject Gabe.

I practice with a neck whip [ flexible weapon ] made of 8 kangaroo hide plaits over a rawhide core. It's 50 inches in length and a quarter inch thick with two "poppers" at the striking end.

It's carried regularly doubled and tucked into the waist so the two ends just stick out to be grabbed and accessed to use immediately from concealed.

It's like a small hand bullwhip, custom made by Scott Homschek of Pa. I met Scott this year at the Riddle of Steel with James Keating on the Snake River. We practiced one day for a few hours with nylon rope trainers hitting small square pieces of styrofoam that were thrown in front of you by a partner, then swapped off...

For fans of the neck whip or of the genre, Homschek has a 2 DVD set out now, available here (http://www.paladin-press.com/detail.aspx?ID=1302) and on eBay. A review of the set is here (http://www.alliancemartialarts.com/review28.htm) and is quite up front about what's on it.

There is another alternative, little known outside the Bujinkan. Dick Severance (http://n-i-n.com/Tools.html), a Bujinkan instructor, sells nylon rope versions of kusari fundo for training. He also sells them with thin brass weights. Unlikely they'll pass a metal detector, but they might come in handy, and the unweighted trainers could probably do in a pinch--as the DVD I mentioned is largely done with a length of un-knotted nylon rope, and there's a breaking demo. Another more covert version of the weighted ones exists, as a bolo tie with a gold or silver clasp, using thinner rope. That's available from a jeweler named John Matthews in Vero Beach, FL (no website but Google will find him if you include the term "jeweler").

michael
03-04-2006, 01:41 AM
Dick Severance is a great guy and makes quality weapons. I have a couple I bought from him years ago at Tai Kai. He is a very interesting and "colorful" guy. Former Hell's Angel, turned UDT (the forerunner of the Navy SEAL's) turned martial artist. Everything I have ever seen that he made was very well done.

eight_88888888
03-14-2006, 05:10 PM
I'm pretty sure this quote was from a book, "Hardcore Self Defense" by C.R. Jahn. Almost word for word.
The book is an interesting read. There are sections on "beltfighting", guns, knives, improvised weapons, and "mindset".
Some good stuff, some stuff to leave.
Pretty cheap on Amazon.

I've heard of another book titled "Underground," by the same author. Has anyone read it or have comment on it?

Captain Redbeard
03-14-2006, 07:55 PM
I have "hardcore self defense" right here, the beltfighting is chapter 6. The chapter and a few others is available for free on their site. http://www.righteouswarriortemple.org/New%20Folder/hce.htm

As Gabe said, a student found it on a website...

I was looking for "underground" the other day on amazon, but I couldn't find it. Then I looked everywhere else, nothing. The only place I found a reference to it was on their website, in the quotes section. Could have been published privately?

Class Auditor
03-17-2006, 01:22 AM
I was looking for "underground" the other day on amazon, but I couldn't find it. Then I looked everywhere else, nothing. The only place I found a reference to it was on their website, in the quotes section. Could have been published privately?

I recall years ago the RWT site mentioned this was a short run book that would not be reprinted. This strongly hints at private publishing. If it's not listed on the site now, odds are it's gone.

Southern_Rebel_Fighter
03-12-2018, 09:23 AM
Just seeing this article! Been using some of these techniques for a few years, with every fight I get in. I learned a little bit of it from my uncle, who does some of this stuff.